David Calson Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 DP's: How did you climb your way to becoming DP/cinematographer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Panczenko Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 There are two main ways that come to mind: The traditional way is as follows: Camera PA (this is not common anymore) Loader 2nd AC 1st AC Camera Operator Director of Photography More and more, though, many people are going to schools like AFI, or the 1 year intensive study programs, and finding themselves being offered work when they get out, totally bypassing the other job positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Tanner Posted August 19, 2004 Share Posted August 19, 2004 I started as a PA, working for nothing. Eventually I got paying jobs and after a few years I was working on the grip/electric crews as a 3rd electric or grip. Six or seven years later I was working in the commercial/music video world as a gaffer and that is where I learned the most about cinematography. Not the "X's and O's" but the subtle differences in lighting styles between the different DP's that I worked with. After a few years of working as a Gaffer, I shot some spec work for a friend of mine that worked at an advertising agency and those spots gave me something to show to prospective clients. After the first paying job as a DP everything began to fall into place and now I'm able to make a good living doing what I love. In the early years it was tough...very tough. Making little to no money and trying to stay in school was extremely hard financially, physically and emotionally. But in hindsight, it was all well worth it and I wouldn't change a thing. Regards, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Calson Posted August 21, 2004 Author Share Posted August 21, 2004 Good info so far, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted August 21, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted August 21, 2004 Hi, > schools like AFI, or the 1 year intensive study programs, and finding themselves > being offered work when they get out I'm staggered. I presume these people were already connected in some way? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Steelberg ASC Posted August 21, 2004 Share Posted August 21, 2004 I find myself having a very unique background. I didn't work my way through other positions or go to film school, save for a summer of office PA /2nd AC/B Camera Op on a B movie. Shooting is all I've ever really done. I had 2 friends who were taking a summer film class and they needed to have someone shoot their B&W 16 final project. They didn't know anything about film or exposure or light, so they offered it to me knowing that I was into still photography, but knew nothing of cinematography. All they cared about was if I could expose. They gave me the book on cinematography given to them in their class to read before the shoot. I became hooked after and the short went on to win some festivals around the world. This was when I was 17. Friends of friends saw it and they know people who were shooting shorts, so I was asked to do those as well. That kept happening until one short was really big at Sundance one year and the first to be sold for the biggest amount. That director got signed to a commercial production company and I began to do commercials. I shot 3 spec commercials for the director I did that 1st short for and those got him signed to RSA (Ridley Scott's commercial company) where he is now one of their busiest directors. I was able to shoot spots with him too. All of this enabled me to get an agent and here we are 4 years later. All along I've still shoot whatever I can because I don't have connections through working on crews or being in school for years. Different things work for different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted August 21, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted August 21, 2004 Hi, I think that's another pointer: shoot film. If you were shooting 16mm at the age of 17 and you're now a working DP, that's particularly noticable. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted August 21, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted August 21, 2004 I'm staggered. I presume these people were already connected in some way? Phil Did it occur to you that they might be good? Sure, some people get hooked up through connections, but other people are just hardworking and good at what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Jayson Crothers Posted August 22, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted August 22, 2004 Going into my final year at AFI, I can say it's not as simple as getting out and being offered work. Most of us have connections of some sort or another (Phil, even YOU have contacts I'm sure), but any offers I've been getting are coming through people I met prior to AFI or because of AFI - the fact that I'm going here doesn't give me any kind of "skipping the ranks" benefit. I WOULD say the caliber of people here, for the most part, is top notch, so it could seem that AFI is giving us an advantage, but I think work ethic is the bigger factor. As much as my loans would like it to be the other way...................... =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Steelberg ASC Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Hi, I think that's another pointer: shoot film. If you were shooting 16mm at the age of 17 and you're now a working DP, that's particularly noticable. Perhaps. I didn't really have an option. DV was still years away and Hi-8 was the awesome new video format. 16 was where it was at and I also had free access to an Eclair NPR. I like to think however it has more to do with the quality of my work rather than the fact I started on film at such an early point. When the film schools were starting their students on Super 8 and 16 that didn't seem to put them at a particular benefit later on. I will make one point in agreement with you Phil. I think shooting film earlier makes for better DPs because one must take more time lighting and making sure they know what they are doing because they don't want to waste film because of the cost. With DV I feel as if students of cinematography are more likely to just roll without thinking too much about what they are trying to accomplish and not really learn as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Louis Hill Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 eric Do you think it is also important to understand DV for aspiring DPs?? I thought your comment was interesting and it is something i have just started looking into. Infact i shot my first 50 feet of film the other day (super 8...very excited about it). I have been playing around with DV for about 3 years and i try to light it in a way that i think looks pleasing but i do not really know what i am doing. I just kinda look through the viewfinder and if it looks like something remotely close to something i have seen in a film i go with it. but i feel like this is cheating sometimes. maybe that is not the right word but maybe you may understand what i mean. DV gives you the results right there but i really want to learn how to accomplish the same thing with film. I also noticed that when i was shooting the Super 8 the other day i was highly selective about my composition. I am interested in how it will look when i get it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos M. Icaza Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Michael, Allow me to chime in. I think that what is more important is understanding composition. I agree with Eric in his comment that it is important to start shooting film early because you get more discpline, discpline in every sense of the word when it comes to filming the scene. But, like you, I started and I am shooting DV. For me, the reason am shooting DV and soon will do my first film shoot, it is because I need to understand what is in front of the viewfinder and understand composition and learn about the discpline without burning a hole in my wallet in film stocks and film developing. It is easy to turn on the camera and shoot, but the craft of Cinematography is just more than that. It is about camera composition, what is in front of the lense, doing a close up vs a medium shot, moving left vs moving right, handheld vs dolly vs jib vs tripod. And of course, goes without saying the lighting. What is the motivation for the lighting? Night scene, day scene, practials, do you have a light arc on the story ? If it is a night scene where does the lght come from? How about a fire scene ? I personally feel that if I can answer all these questions and learn enough about them and discipline myself, then the transition to film would be a bit easier because I would have understood the other side of the coin. Also, goes without saying that experience is important. Have you been on a set and all of the sudden realize that the camera plate is missing and you can't secure the camera to the jib, and this is the last scene of the movie and the scene the director and eveyrone has been waiting for and you drove for about an hour to location and have only few minutes to figure it out? Luckily, I have a great gaffer and an awesome grip and in matter of seconds we rigged a plate out of dolly wedges and some screws and safety taps. go the shot and all was cool. Experience such as that is invaluable, for me, at least it is, and I would trade that experience over any camera any day. This experience is what gives me the confidence that I am "not cheating", (how could you have cheated the above scenario?) Like you, I often feel like I am, I do know what you mean..... My $0.02 C.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Louis Hill Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Carlos i completely understand what you are saying and i do take all that into account when i am working with DV. i just want to understand the process film. the way it reacts to light.etc.... i try to understand what the project is about and light it with the resources that i have. From my experience with DV i have learned a lot about compostion i just feel in the dark about film. But i did find it very interesting when i shot with film because i was very selective with my framing. I'm just looking to learn and have those experiences such as the one you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos M. Icaza Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Michael, Subscribe to American Cinematographer and try to get your hands on as many back issues as you can. The articles are invaluable tool for dp's. Want to know how a film reacts to a certain light, am pretty sure that the vast amount of written work on film on them pages of AC will give you plenty to read. Also check out the Kodak Film portion of their website http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/ and the book by Blain Brown Cinematography: Image Making for Cinematographers, Directors, and Videographers ISBN: 0240805003 There is a link on one of the pages of the kodak site that has all the film stocks and their foot candles requirement. They list both the 16mm and 35mm numbers. I recommend you look at it and learn what the lighting requirements are for each stock, then when you light for DV, take your light meter and make notes. then compare how much light footcandles you used and what would the appropiate film for that scene would have been. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Steelberg ASC Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 eric Do you think it is also important to understand DV for aspiring DPs?? I thought your comment was interesting and it is something i have just started looking into. Infact i shot my first 50 feet of film the other day (super 8...very excited about it). I have been playing around with DV for about 3 years and i try to light it in a way that i think looks pleasing but i do not really know what i am doing. I just kinda look through the viewfinder and if it looks like something remotely close to something i have seen in a film i go with it. but i feel like this is cheating sometimes. maybe that is not the right word but maybe you may understand what i mean. DV gives you the results right there but i really want to learn how to accomplish the same thing with film. I also noticed that when i was shooting the Super 8 the other day i was highly selective about my composition. I am interested in how it will look when i get it back. Precisely my point. Even with Super 8 you were forced to take an extra moment to think about what you were doing. If you can learn how to light and properly expose a piece of film, your video will only look that much better. I do think DV has a place for aspiring DPs in that it is a good strting point in progressing to HD. But I think it makes more sense to start with film...even if it's still photography...and learn video later on once you have your lighting and exposure skills. Besides if we're talking about doing this professionally, you will always have at least 1 assistant that knows the cameras better than you and can alleviate the burden of having to know everything about HD and video signals. So I wouldn't place too much importance in learning video so early except as a tool to learn compositions. If you want to learn how to light, grab a Nikon and a roll of film (slides works best). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted August 23, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted August 23, 2004 Hi, > Did it occur to you that they might be good? Nobody's THAT good. Recent graduates don't get hired on the basis that they're recent graduates. The only way around this is to wait until you're not a recent graduate anymore, or be very strongly connected. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos M. Icaza Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Eric, Yes. Photography. That was key for me. I have been an avid photographer since the mid 80's. Slides are the way to go :-) as well as B&W. C.- PS: Pick a Canon :P ( am only joking, not to start a canon vs nikon ... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted August 23, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted August 23, 2004 Hi, > Friends of friends saw it and they know people who were shooting shorts... This is the stuff that really helps. Be in LA and I doubt you can avoid these kind of connections even if you want to. No matter how good I ever get, I don't know anyone who'd hire me. Out here in the wilds of Essex, I know no other people who are interested in film beyond crunching popcorn as one rolls by before their glazed expressions - it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to assume I was the only person in this town (of around 150,000 people). I have to go into London for that stuff, and we know how dismal London is. Location would seem to be critically important. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Louis Hill Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Carlos Thanks for the advise. i do have a subscription to the magazine and i recently purchased that book. AC gets easier to understand as i read more and more articles but i still struggle to understand everything so hopefully Blain's book will help fill in the blanks. I will also look into the light meter because i have not thought of that approach before. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Peline Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 I found 'Lighting for Film and Electronic Cinematography by Dave Viera' really useful when I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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