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"look" Settings


Brant Collins

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I just got a DVX100 and want to make different ?looks" in the camera using the color and gamma settings. Example the look of the Matrix or a bleached bypass look, or supper saturated look. Anyone doing this in camera? I have attached a sample of a look I am wanting to mimic.

 

Thanks

brant collins

www.brantcollins.com

post-7113-1172419263.jpg

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I'd say that there are some limited settings that you can achieve with a camera like the DVX but personally I have found that filters such as Nattress for FCP in post (http://www.nattress.com/Products/filmeffects/filmeffects.htm) can give you a range of settings that cameras can't achieve at that level by itself. I just finished an instructional video using such filters to create a wide assortment of looks including bleach bypass that I would have had trouble accomplishing in camera the way I wanted them. Best of all, I was not locked into any one look from shooting and recording a particular look, but had the ability at altering the look after the fact. The shot you show in your posy seems more like combinations of underexposure and highlighting either with lighting or in post effects than simply a particular camera setting.

Edited by Walter Graff
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Hi

I own a dvx and I like to achieve most of the look in camera myself.

I would first lower the detail and v-detail down to -3, they take the hard edge off the image.

I would lower the chroma level to -7, desaturating the image.

I would lower the chroma phase to -7, gives a slight greenish tinge to the image.

maybe even add a bit of blue, try raiseing the colour temperture to +2 or +3, just enough to cool the skin tones,but not enough to see the blue.

I like to keep the master peds at -5

Keep the matrix on normal,its the least saturated giving a more desaturated look

I like to shoot cinegamma, giving you the most dynamic range.Just watch for over exposure.

keep the lighting high contrast, lots of silohettes keep the key light overexposed by at least 1 stop, use no fill light. I would also keep the lights clean from any gels, except colour componsating gels, just as long as your white balanced to those gels. you'll have a cleaner image giving you more room for minipulation in post if you need it?

 

 

one more thing

 

I also like to shoot wide open, just use the nd filters, you may want to buy a 2 stop nd filter n6.

This camer is dreadfull for its strong depth of field,which can be good if your filming a home movie.

but not if your trying to make a movie.

just remember shoot on a 45mm lens and keep the aperture wide open.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Thanks for the info Walter the plug in filters look nice but I like to do more in camera effects.

 

Thanks Daniel, I am going to try what you suggested.

 

I we used settings similar to Daniel (previous post), and extend image control during post (if you capture material over SDI in uncompressed 10bit, you can achieve very good control, having in mind that you are shooting on DV 25Mb).

 

Shooting a feature I followed approach that f-stop (exposure) is used to control highlights (not to lose them), and in camera settings to control blacks. Try experimenting with diferent gamma settings. CINE GAMA_D will give you more dynamic range in black and CINE GAMA_V will shorten the range. If You cimbine this with M.PED level you can manage to control blacks very precisely. In some point I streched blacks (with pedestal), managing to define wery nice scale in darks. Later in post you can precisely define what is black and what is near to black and with some details.

Experiments with waveform monitor, and lab (if you are shooting for film) are very good thing, and can give you good idea what to set on camera and what to leave for post.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Nemanja N. Jovanov

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I'd say that there are some limited settings that you can achieve with a camera like the DVX but personally I have found that filters such as .....

 

Correct me if I'm wrong - I could've sworn this was the DXV100 area. Not the plug-ins area.

 

Part of the allure of the DVX line is the ability to do in-camera image manipulation. Nattress and Magic Bullet are great. For what they do. And if you want to play around with software all day and render out what can't be photographed with a DVX. Sorry to nit-pick but come on...

 

I've seen several uses of custom DVX settings that blew me away. That's with manual white balance, proper exposure and a solid operator. Not additional and unwanted computer time.

 

There's a thread on dvxuser.com with several different shared settings.

 

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=88846

 

With regards to sharing, this template seems to help cut to the nitty-gritty.......

 

MASTER PEDESTAL:

MATRIX:

DETAIL LEVEL:

DETAIL CORING:

V DETAIL LEVEL:

V DETAIL FREQ:

GAMMA:

KNEE:

CHROMA LEVEL:

CHROMA PHASE:

COLOR TEMP:

SKIN TONE DTL:

PROGRESSIVE:

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Then this might be a secret but...

 

 

no camera or software can replace talent. You can set your DVX anyway you want but if you can't light, can't compose, can't shoot, then you've got a DVX that has the potential for great pictures, just as a hammer has the potential to build a house. Same is true for plug ins. Nattress is not going to make you a great cinematographer. It's a tool and if you know how to shoot Natress can make you a better cinematographer. With today's tools I find it great to do what I can in camera and then do even more with color grading etc. But for me as an experienced pro, having tools in both production and post can really push what I do over the edge and in some cases fix what I lacked in one or the other. Here is an article about one such instance where time, budget and simply the situation meant I needed post production to help me make what I shot work better:

 

http://www.bluesky-web.com/sun.htm

 

And sometimes I use post to help take a great shot I created and make it even better. But to say that you can only use one or the other is a bit snobbish to me. Hey if you only want to do it in camera great but I hope one doesn't hold their nose up and say that is the only way it should be done. Reality is it can't always be done in camera in some situations so knowing what can help you make it what you want after the fact is important to know too, especially in the areas of color where these prosumer cameras often need help in post.

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Then this might be a secret but... no camera or software can replace talent. {EDIT} But to say that you can only use one or the other is a bit snobbish to me. Hey if you only want to do it in camera great but I hope one doesn't hold their nose up and say that is the only way it should be done.

Nothing snobbish about my statement and I stand by it. I am merely stating the obvious.

Apparently there remains some confusion on your end.

 

As indicated above, this is:

 

"Cinematography.com > Cinematography Forums > Video Only > Panasonic AG-DVX100A > "look" Settings"

 

I don't see NLE's, effects, Nattress, Magic Bullet, Plug-Ins or software of any kind mentioned. Why confuse the issue?

 

I also use all of these tools (and more) when cc'ing and grading for broadcast and film-out. I also discuss their use in their respective forums.

 

I believe that Brant Collins began this thread to discuss "look" settings - not to hear your thoughts on workflow with links to your website. As "an experienced pro", I'm sure you can appreciate the need to stay on-topic.

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Having just read that..... Sounds like I needed some coffee. Someone woke up on the wrong side of the edit bay. To that end, I offer an olive branch.

 

I agree - great shots can be made better by post-processing. I use and enjoy all the products and workflows you described, Walt.

 

I ran across {but have not tested} these DVX digits.....

 

saving private ryan

chroma level -7

chroma phase 2

color temp -1

master ped -12

gamma - low

knee - high

matrix - norm

24p

(be sure to add a high shutter speeed!)

 

minority report

detail level 1

v detail level 2

detail coring 6

chroma level 2

chroma phase -4

color temp 4

master ped -11

a iris -4

gamma - cine like v

matrix - flou

24p

 

70's

detail level -4

v detail level -7

detail coring 3

chroma level -7

chroma phase 1

color temp -6

master ped 7

a iris -4

gamma - cine like v

matrix cine-like

24p

 

(Courtesy of dvxuser.com)

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I ran across these listed as Barry Green's 'sometimes-used' settings.... I have seen a set he listed elsewhere as 'most-often' used but I can't determine whether these are the same or not. Again, this is a post-from-a-post so I apologize in advance if (for some reason) they are not exact. You know - that Barry Green... author, expert, Panny fan.....

 

 

Master Ped: -8

Matric: CINE

Detail LVL: -2

Detail Coring: 2

V Detail LVL: -1

V Detail FREQ: THIN

Gamma: CINE_D

Knee: LOW

Chroma LVL: 2

Chromas PHASE: 0

Color TEMP: 0 or -1

Skin Tone DTL: OFF

Progressive: 24pA

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Thanks to all for the great info. I am going to try all the settings. I will try and post results. I am using my old trusty 1.25 Powerbook to edit. So any thing I can do in camera let's me save rendering time. I got the DVX100 so I could get different looks. I do like plug-ins but for me personally I want to learn more about my camera. I also use filters(not software) but real glass ones:)

 

I read an interesting article about the using HD on Battle Star Galactica and much time was spent to get what they call a "Nuclear Look" not film look, not video look, but a look that would be different and help tell the story.

And sometimes in a fast paced environment like TV broadcast you do not have the time to render, even if you have the best computers.

 

Thanks again for all the responses, this forum is a great resource!

 

Brant Collins

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I hear you, Brant. I'm experimenting myself, hence the reason for digging up all those different settings. This thrread could maybe serve as a central spot to share what we find that works.

 

I realize it's not specific to the DVX100 but addresses what you'd just described regarding TV work. There's been a lot of debate elsewhere on the exaggerated, stylistic look of "CSI: Miami" and how it's been achieved.

 

Co-DP Charles Mills has this to say in the latest issue of American Cinematographer:

 

"If you're going to suspend disbelief, just go all the way. People assume it's all done in post, but it's not - all the colors are done in camera with filtration and colored lights. The visuals are so important to this show."

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I do like looks but I believe you need to stick with one look per projects. I see to many different looks in one project sometimes. I was a fine art major in college(sculpture) I did a "moder art" piece once and my professor said something I will alway remember. He said if you are going for a "look" make sure you do it overstated and don't hold back, if you do it looks like you just had bad technique.

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Not bad advice indeed.

 

I've been experimenting mainly to get to know the settings better. My current project is a documentary so there will end up being 2 very different scenarios and testing to determine settings for each.

 

Basically:

 

1. Single-person 'talking-head' interviews with a 3-point kit (black rolling off into shadows, shallow DOF)

 

2. Western exteriors b-roll (Colorado & Utah electric-blue sky, red rock canyon country)

 

We're using a filter stack of 77mm ND's and a Hoya 'Moose'. The 'Moose' is a combo wwarming / circular polarizer filter that really helps pop the clouds and cuts down on glare. Some people say there's no need for a warming filter since you can shift towards red with COLOR TEMP but I like getting the light as pretty as possible before it even gets into the camera. Thing is (obviously) you have to white-balance before you put the filter on or it will actually negate / reverse the effect.

 

Will probably end up changing the Vertical Detai below in addition to bringing down the auto-iris level. I don't use the auto-iris - only as a reference for manual exposure.

 

"Denver Buttered Toast" Settings Test:

 

DETAIL -3

V DETAIL -1

CORING +2

CHROMA +3

C PHASE 0

COLOR TEMP -2

PED -8

A.IRIS 0

GAMMA CINELIKE V

KNEE LOW

SKIN DTL OFF

V DTL THIN

24p

 

Merrells.jpg

BacClouds.jpg

Road2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't vouch for these but a shooter out of Virginia posted these as digits he was given for a "Flip That House" shoot from the production company:

 

PED -5

MATRIX CiINELIKE

DETAIL -4

CORING 0

V DETAIL 0

V DETAIL THICK

GAMMA CINELIKE

KNEE AUTO

CHROMA 0

C PHASE 0

TEMP 0

SKIN DTL ON

A. IRIS -3

24p

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This is from Andy Starbuck (DVXuser.com):

 

Here is a link to some sample images of scene settings I created for a contest submission. http://www.kymovie.com/areas/justus/sixyearsunder.htm

 

All of the looks were inspired by movies I admire.

 

The settings for these looks are as follows:

 

 

"Normal"

Detail Level 0

V. Detail 0

Detail Coring 0

Chroma Level 0

Chroma Phase 0

Color Temp 0

Master Ped 0

A.Iris +2

Gamma CINE-V

Knee AUTO

Skin DTL OFF

Matrix CINE-LIKE

 

"SuperSat"

Detail Level +2

V. Detail 0

Detail Coring +2

Chroma Level +7

Chroma Phase 0

Color Temp 0

Master Ped 0

A.Iris +4

Gamma CINE-V

Knee AUTO

Skin DTL OFF

Matrix CINE-LIKE

 

"6under"

Detail Level -1

V. Detail 0

Detail Coring 0

Chroma Level -7

Chroma Phase -4

Color Temp +6

Master Ped -2

A.Iris +2

Gamma B.PRESS

Knee MID

Skin DTL OFF

Matrix NORM

 

"Germany"

Detail Level -1

V. Detail 0

Detail Coring 0

Chroma Level -7

Chroma Phase +4

Color Temp -5

Master Ped -3

A.Iris +2

Gamma LOW

Knee MID

Skin DTL OFF

Matrix CINE-LIKE

 

"Moonlight"

Detail Level +4

V. Detail 0

Detail Coring +2

Chroma Level -7

Chroma Phase +4

Color Temp +7

Master Ped +8

A.Iris +2

Gamma B.PRESS

Knee MID

Skin DTL OFF

Matrix FLUO

 

"SkipB"

Detail Level +2

V. Detail 0

Detail Coring -3

Chroma Level -6

Chroma Phase +5

Color Temp 0

Master Ped -12

A.Iris +4

Gamma HIGH

Knee HIGH

Skin DTL OFF

Matrix FLUO

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The comp jpeg might be a bit small to see much detail but it beats the size of the last batch {I think}. Anyway, basically a variation on the earlier test, this one is "UV Haze & Toxic Gas".

 

The circular polarizer helped with the mile-high UV blast of sun that we have here but there's not much I can do about the industrial energy complex that is Commerce City, Colorado.

 

UVHaze-COMP1.jpg

 

UV HAZE & TOXIC GAS SCENE FILE:

 

DETAIL -2

V DETAIL LEVEL -4

DETAIL CORING +3

CHROMA LEVEL +3

CHROMA PHASE 0

COLOR TEMP -2

MASTER PED -5

A. IRIS LEVEL -2

GAMMA CINELIKE V

KNEE (N/A)

MATRIX CINELIKE

SKIN DTL OFF

V DETAIL FREQ MID

PROGRESSIVE 24pA

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This is from DVFilm.com out of Austin. You know - the Raylight, DVFilm Maker guys. These are their suggested setings for film-out. Again - just adding to this growing list of different digits...

 

DVX100/DVX100A Suggested settings for Transfer to Film or Use with DVFilm Maker

 

SHUTTER = OFF (1/50th). 1/60th sec may also be used, but only to reduce flicker with florescent or arc lighting in 60Hz countries (like the USA).

ATW (Auto Tracking White Balance) = OFF

 

SCENE FILE:

? DETAIL LEVEL = -3 (see note 1)

? CHROMA LEVEL = 0

? CHROMA PHASE = 0

? COLOR TEMP = 0

? MASTER PED = -6 (see note 2)

? A. IRIS LEVEL = -1

? GAMMA = CINE-LIKE (for DVX100A use CINE-LIKE-V)

? SKIN TONE DTL = OFF

? MATRIX = NORMAL

? V DETAIL FREQ = THIN

? PROGRESSIVE = 24P(ADV) for NTSC / 25P for PAL models

? CAMERA SETUP:

? ASPECT CONV = NORM (4:3)

? SETUP = 0%

? SW MODE:

? ATW = OFF

? RECORDING SETUP:

? REC SPEED = SP

? AUDIO REC = 16BIT

? DISPLAY SETUP:

? ZEBRA DETECT 2 = 100% ? ZEBRA DETECT 1 may be useful at 80% to set skin tones just below 80, as suggested by Steve Mullen's guidebook on the DVX100.

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Looking to keep the thread alive..... Anyone else got any scene file settings to share?

 

This is called "The Office" from 'heisest' on dvxuser.com.......

 

Detail Level: +7

V Detail Level: +7

Detail Coring: +7

Chroma Level: -7

Chroma Phase: -7

Color Temp: -2

Master Ped: -10

A.Iris Level: +2

Gamma: Cine-Like

Knee: (Auto)

Matrix: Norm

Skin Tone Dtl: Off

V Detail Freq: Thin

Progressive: 24P(ADV)

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I realize many of my scene files border on the 'warm' side and this is no exception. Someone elsewhere had asked about a 'Mexico' look for an upcoming shoot. Not sure it this fits the bill but I'd like to keep this thread going.

 

There have many 'views' but no real 'shares' to speak of. Come on, people, share some settings digits!

 

Anyway, the contrast here is strong (CINELIKE V). Blacks are conservatively solid with MASTER PEDESTAL at -6 {w/o being crushed}. I do need to bring the V. DETAIL down a bit. The idea was to pull out most of the chroma and warm what's left, creating the sense of late afternoon sun bouncing around, with a hint of the underlying color.

 

So, here's "Warm Rust" ( I know - lame name but oh well....)

 

DETAIL -3

V DETAIL +2

DETAIL CORING +2

CHROMA LVL -7

CHROMA PHASE 0

COLOR TEMP -5

M. PEDESTAL -6

A. IRIS -2

GAMMA CINELIKE V

KNEE (n/a)

MATRIX CINELIKE

V DTL THIN

SKIN DTL OFF

24pA

 

WARMRUST2.jpg

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Another 'borrow' from dvxuser.com. This one comes from Senior Member "bwest" (Cambridge, Mass.).

 

He posted these settings in order "to help with the blocky reds. Thats in-camera setting specifically designed for video noise and chroma noise...all inherent to dv-25 [minidv]. This happens to all minidv cameras with high pixel counts on the ccd's."

 

I haven't used these and some may disagree with the reasoning behind their intended posting but here goes:

 

RED DE-NOISER........

 

DETAIL -5

V.DETAIL 0

DETAIL CORING plus+4

CHROMA LEVEL -4

CHROMA PHASE 0

COLOR TEMP 0

MASTER PED -5

AUTO IRIS on

GAMMA / CONTRAST blk press

KNEE low

SKIN TONE DTL on

MATRIX norm\

 

then use the "chroma blur" or its equivalent in post!

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Maybe if it had a sexier name than "B.PRESS", I would've experimented more with this gamma setting sooner. Not that "CINELIKE V" is all that sexy but that's what I had settled on for a lot of my material. It is, after all, one of the 'suggested' film-out settings from DVFilm.com.

 

Maybe it's too many years finsihing shows for broadcast where maximum contrast is essential 'on the scopes'. Whatever the case, I do find myself pushing blacks to black, whites to white and bringing down mids to taste. I may have found some common ground with "B.PRESS".

 

Also, Barry Green writes in his bible that, with CINELIKE V, "more of the potential dynamic range is used so the image appears to have sharper contrast, but it's done so ELECTRONICALLY by stretching the gamma curve". I'm not sure if that's the culprit but I'm seeing mosquito noise in less-than-ideal recent shoots (sunrise, sunset and low-light). Pushing the range with color-correction {in 10-bit uncompressed} really brought out this noise even further. Regardless, I still push the range and 'almost always' bring down the mids, so maybe B.PRESS could fit the bill.

 

With this latest batch, chroma's a bit hot. This jpeg doesn't do justice to how saturated the new woodwork on that house is. The sky remains thanks to a polarizer filter. Otherwise, there's no other filtration and white balance is clean. The blacks are definitely solid. Maybe too solid - this gamma curve probably allows for some more room on the lower end (a -6 or -7 should be ideal). -8 is what's provided here for PEDESTAL and HIGH on the KNEE, hence the name:

 

"8-BallPressHigh"

 

DETAIL LEVEL -3

V DETAIL LEVEL -1

DETAIL CORING +2

CHROMA LEVEL +3

CHROMA PHASE 0

COLOR TEMP 0

MASTER PED -8

A. IRIS LEVEL -1

GAMMA B.PRESS

KNEE HIGH

MATRIX CINELIKE

SKIN TONE DTL OFF

V DETAIL FREQ THIN

PROGRESSIVE 24P

 

8BallDVX2.jpg

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Okay, so technically it should be "Hostel 2" since that's what Eli Roth was on Conan O' Brien talking about tonight. Regardless, the 'green' look is overdone these days but it was late and scene settings have been on my mind lately (obviously). They showed an interior torture / horror scene and it was time to try and simulate that look on a DVX. The green was off the charts for a straight in-camera tweak alone. CHROMA PHASE will not take you that far green.

 

The 'look' needed to be a repeatable white-balance fake. It needed to be more specific than "experiment with card stock from your local printing supplier". Enter the Smead UltraColor Envelope (No. 89531 - Purple). It's a letter-sized envelope with a string thingie but you only need enough to grab white balance and it's nice to know that their 'purple' will yield this creepy green.

 

My contrast and details are much the same. Switched to NORMAL MATRIX to cut down on low-light noise (thanks to gco of Virginia). CHROMA LEVEL determines how green you want it. Increasing negative digits on COLOR TEMP from 0 (-1 -> -7) determines how much you want to see underlying colors. 0 COLOR TEMP leaves it really green. Blacks are solid at -10 on the PEDESTAL. Put KNEE on AUTO as fluctuating knee-protection could be interesting for a shoot that called for this effect. Or not...

 

When you white-balance to the envelope or any colored material, sometimes it will tell you that it's NG (NoGood, NeGative, NotGonnadoit, NoGo, etc.) but it will still take the color info. It will even hold a 'BAD' white balance in whichever A/B spot you grab it to.... even after power-down.

 

As always, any and all input appreciated........

 

HOSTEL1.jpg

 

 

"Hostel"

 

DETAIL LEVEL -3

V DETAIL LEVEL -1

DETAIL CORING +3

CHROMA LEVEL 0

CHROMA PHASE 0

COLOR TEMP -4

MASTER PED -10

A. IRIS LEVEL -2

GAMMA B.PRESS

KNEE AUTO

MATRIX NORMAL

SKIN TONE DTL OFF

V DETAIL FREQ THIN

PROGRESSIVE 24p

 

White Balance Reference:

Smead UltraColor Envelope (No. 89531 - Purple)

 

SMeadCOMP1.jpg

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Further research led not to more shooting but frame grabs and blank-staring st acopes. The Smead UltraColor Envelope produces such a strong 'green spike' in white balance that there's almost nothing left to warm back up. It's kinda like a strong sodium-vapor streetlight spike.

 

Just need a kinder, gentler violet. I think that's about it. Still a pretty trippy bizarro effect for 99 cents though. And, well, the settings were free too. Obviously.

 

Rather than reverse fluorescents, it looks like Milan Chadima actually played them up. Again - nothing new to that look either.

 

'Green scene' swatched pixel grabs from the film, Vortex's Minus Green (used to correct fluorescents) and the "Smead Spike".......

 

 

GreenQUAD1.jpg

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Nancy Schreiber (as many of you know) shot "November" on 2 DVX's:

 

?In the story, we keep returning to a convenience store, which we color balanced as a murky green. Then we had what we call the blue, golden and white ?chapters,? matching the emotional journey of Sophie. We tried to do everything in-camera in terms of color and contrast, which was facilitated by the camera?s Cine-Like setting and scene files. To achieve a film-like quality, I worked on the long-end of the lens, as wide open as possible, with not much depth of field. We had to do some wide shots?traditionally a liability with video cameras?but I thought these shots looked almost as good as if we?d shot with an expensive HD camera.?

 

 

NovemberSEXTET.jpg

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Nope. Not James Bond. Long before Pierce Brosnan took his turn as 007 in '95, John Huston released a very strange film in 1967, "Reflections in a Golden Eye" starring Marlon Brando & Elizabeth Taylor.

 

I used a Smead UltraColor Envelope 89532 (BLUE this time) for WHITE BALANCE. Add some adjustments in-camera and you've got a cheat on this weird look.

 

"To emphasize the film's psychological oppressiveness and find a visual equivalent for the novel's brooding, interior spirit, Huston," according to Tony Thomas in The Films of John Huston, "evolved a costly and complicated process of desaturating the film's color until only a gold and slightly pinkish image emerged. [Cinematographer Oswald] Morris called the effect on the film's mood "quite extraordinary." Warner Brothers didn't agree, however, and released the film in full Technicolor, which made the film pictorially striking and quite beautiful to look at, but decidedly worked against the emotional impact Huston wanted Reflections to have."

 

"GOLDEN EYE"

(need Smead 89532 or weird blue for white balance)

 

DETAIL -3

V. DETAIL LEVEL -3

DETAIL CORING +3

CHROMA LEVEL 0

CHROMA PHASE -7

COLOR TEMP +5

MASTER PED -5

A. IRIS LEVEL -2

GAMMA B.PRESS

KNEE HIGH

MATRIX NORMAL

SKIN TONE DTL OFF

V. DETAIL FREQ THIN

PROGRESSIVE 24P

 

 

GoldenEyeCOMP1.jpg

 

 

"Warner Home Video recently released Reflections in a Golden Eye as a stand-alone DVD and as part of the Marlon Brando Collection boxed set, and the picture looks the way Huston originally intended. The anamorphically enhanced presentation restores the picture?s widescreen aspect ratio, and Warner Home Video has seen fit to add the golden sheen back to the image ? a disquieting visual detail that only adds to the film?s strange, tension-filled narrative."

Why would you want to use this? I have absolutely no idea.

Why did I do it? Well, I had the envelope and a little too much time on my hands it seems.

Warner Brothers hated it, maybe you will too......

 

Fever City Studio, Denver, CO

fevercity is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message

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