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Ruairi Robinson

Grabs from Peter Jackson Short

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The camera is clearly no good for 3 reasons:

 

- my wife looked at the pictures and said 'I dont like them.'

- the pics are obviously shot on film and degrained in post

- the hype around the camera is too big, therefore it can't be a good camera

 

Hank den Drijver

DP

Schin op Geul

the Netherlands

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I don't want to start an international incident, but they seem to have a similar "lifeless" low-contrast look to what I have seen shot outside on the Genesis and the D-20. The sky never looks terribly blue, like it was shot early in the morning or something.

 

What that sort of footage always makes me think of is like film projected in a cinema when the lights have not been turned all the way down! I am sure if I took a snap of that same scene with my digital still camera it would look better.

 

Why don't RED have DVDs of the footage? If I can make really good DVDs of my digital home movies, so they should be able to.

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The image could easily be color-corrected for more saturation... but it IS a battle scene from WW1 afterall, not a travelogue.

 

The short was just finished and it used copyrighted music from Jackson's "King Kong" so there have been some rights clearances to obtain before the short can be distributed.

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"The sky never looks terribly blue, like it was shot early in the morning or something."

 

 

We need to learn how to talk about electronic cameras characteristics and not the tastes

of the filmmaker and or colorist.

 

With film stock you could say - this stock has these image ( color and contrast ) characteristics

when processed and printed in a given fashion. and that would yield more or less repeatable

results

 

In a color suite merely turning some knobs can change an image a great deal in terms of

luminace, black level, hue, saturation and more.

 

In comparing electronic cameras we'll need to concentrate on what you go into that suite

with and not the images you come out with.

 

This is by no means a complete list, but I think it's a start - feel free to modify or add to it.

There are many new electronic cameras to play with, lets stay focused on the aspects that

relate to the camera and not to the color suite.

 

 

resolution - sensor and recording

latitude

colorspace

color bit depth - A/D 's and recording

noise

artifacts - compression, temporal and spatial

optics

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Right clicking on these images and checking "properties" reports that they're 1100X490 pixel jpegs. That's not very informative of a 4K camera's potential. I've got a 21" Sony CadVision monitor in my den, when I get a look at 4K X 2K RED images on it I'll have a better idea of what to think about RED.

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It has a certain look to it. But, personally I feel vastly inferior to the look Roman Polanski achieved on Oliver Twist, or Tim Burton achieved with Sleepy Hollow. I think it's a good comparison. A-list directors working with film vs an A-list director working with Red.

 

If Red users are happy with the image, fine, have fun. That's all that really matters after you have made your purchase any way.

 

R,

 

Richard... if you weren't such a pain in the ass, you would be really funny. Peter Jackson got two Alpha prototypes and the very next day he started shooting. The "test shoot" lasted two days. He and his team had one week to do post and deliver to NAB. They had never worked with digital. And you are comparing the results with Oliver Twist? hehe... just are just too fu**ing funny. I'm not sure why you have a hair up your ass, but it has gotten you your 15 minutes of fame. I give you that. Your PM's are priceless. Your steadfast opposition is unwavering. If you ever put your determined will to the test in a positive way, you would be a rock star. OK, you got a response from me. Is that what you wanted? I am sure this post will incite you to further remarks (that I will not ever again respond to). But you did get your way. I hope you are smiling and happy. Have a beer. But you are now on my "ignore" list. My best to you.

 

Final score- Peter Jackson= thumbs up. Richard Boddington= thumbs down.

 

Jim

Edited by Jim Jannard

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Sorry... Peter Jackson (Academy Award winning Director)= thumbs up, Richard Boddington (Death Dealer)= thumbs down.

 

Jim

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Thumbs down.

 

R,

 

Jim: Where do we find you on IMDB? And how are you associated with Red? Are you one of marketing guys or some thing?

 

Dear Diary: Oooh! Look at ME. I'M Richard BODdington. I'M on IMDB! That makes me...something! My great body of work is admired the world over. I am an ARTIST! My vast body of work could EVEN be compared to...to... well... Oliver Twist. Yeah, that's it! I'm in the same category of great filmmakers. And it only took me --a long long time to accomplish all I've done. So who is that upstart Jim Jannard to think he has ANY business building anything? He has never done anything to match my magnificent work! And doing it in only 15 months. Pooh! I coulda done it in 3!

 

Where was I? Oh yes... I make BILLIONS. Mankind is better for my existence. I am the BODDIFIER! I feel like hanging over the bow of the ship yelling "I'M ASS OF THE WORLD!" I sign my mirror every morning "to myself with greatest admiration and love."

 

Hmm. I wonder why no one recognized ME when I snuck into the Red booth. They're just little people anyway. They wouldn't know it if greatness bit them on the ASS! Keep up the great work Richard. You are loved by all!

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I've been under the impression for many years that this was a forum for discussing cinematography. Please gentlemen, let's no go down the road of personal insults...there is nothing to gain by insulting one another on a "professional" forum.

 

Now back to the topic at hand. Comparing screen grabs from one movie to another or one commercial to another or one student film to another does absolutely nothing in the way of comparing camera systems or mediums. The only way, in my view, to compare is to perform extensive side by side testing photographing the same subject under the same conditions. I can find hundreds of thousands of examples on either side of the "which format looks better" argument on 35mm, super 16mm, 16mm, HD, Digibeta, BetaSP, mini DV, etc. Picking a good looking shot with a saturated blue sky, or overall desaturated image, or a sunset over the Pacific has no relevance in a discussion about technical specifications...unless you have the same shot captured and color corrected in similar fashions on each format.

 

What I consider the best looking shot ever captured on a camera will not be the same one that you would pick. This seems pretty basic to me.

 

Please, keep on topic. It makes for a much more informative forum.

 

Respectfully,

 

Jeff

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Man this site sucks... I mean consistently sucks. A few people always ruin it for everyone.

 

Jim, Footage looks great. I am excited about the RED coming to Austin rental houses someday!

 

Keep it up, looks like things are moving along.

Edited by Joseph Winchester

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Ok, Ok, Jim J. and I have been e-mailing back and forth. No one needs to know the details, Jim did not in any way threaten me with legal action, offer me money, a free camera. Nothing.

 

So I deleted all of my posts from this thread. So now things will look a bit choppy, but my stuff is gone.

 

I've had my amusement, so that's it. Ok Jim?

 

R,

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Thanks for bringing it back, Jeff, let's hope it stays there. I think the images look great, though maybe not the best fit for WWI material, but I'll have to wait till I see it in motion. I can definitely see its application though, i.e. that scifi "Rendezvous with Rama" adaptation I mentioned in another thread. Very fragmentary mise en scene, on another note, but that's just the images here.

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Round 2

 

Ruairi,

 

Thanks for posting these.

 

I've watched carefully the progression of this whole thing over the past year. Have downloaded the tests and viewed etc. I think this camera (RED) and the Penelope are two of a number of very interesting and exciting camera-projects out there right now.

 

And I think regardless of the success or failure of any camera-project, the desire to make something that can add to our ability to tell stories, and the attempt to bring such a project to reality, must be admired.

 

AJB

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I've had my amusement, so that's it. Ok Jim?

 

R,

 

Someone who shoots other people down for amusement and now thinks all is okay? This is exactly the kind of person I would never ever want to work with or hire, and the kind of person I would make sure no one I work with would hire either. It is no wonder that a lot of producers I know keep lists of people to consider and people to watch out for. I already know this person will most likely be on several people's to-avoid-at-al-costs lists.

 

Is it bad to black-list people like this person? Naw. Life is too short. Why step in poop if you don't have to.

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This is exactly the kind of person I would never ever want to work with or hire, and the kind of person I would make sure no one I work with would hire either.

 

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

Richard has his own business & just financed his own 35mm feature. He is not looking to be hired!

 

Eric,

 

Cooke S4's, Optimo Zoom.

 

Stephen

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In light of this new evidence I feel I must appologize to Richard. I had no idea he was such a successful person. He has his own business? No way. That is very impressive. And on top of that he financed his own 35mm feature? I think we should all step aside and let him continue to be the way he is. He certainly has earned it.

 

Can we go back now to discussing the red footage?

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In light of this new evidence I feel I must appologize to Richard. I had no idea he was such a successful person. He has his own business? No way. That is very impressive. And on top of that he financed his own 35mm feature? I think we should all step aside and let him continue to be the way he is. He certainly has earned it.

 

Tom, there is a difference between criticising (or being cynical about) about new technology and criticising or attacking an individual who does invest a lot of time in this forum.

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Someone who shoots other people down for amusement and now thinks all is okay? This is exactly the kind of person I would never ever want to work with or hire, and the kind of person I would make sure no one I work with would hire either. It is no wonder that a lot of producers I know keep lists of people to consider and people to watch out for. I already know this person will most likely be on several people's to-avoid-at-al-costs lists.

 

Is it bad to black-list people like this person? Naw. Life is too short. Why step in poop if you don't have to.

Thats sad are you saying the public get shortchanged because those making decisions decide on who they like rather than who has the talent? I wonder how investors would view that philosphy?

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