Jump to content
Nathan Milford

Aaton Penelope-2

Recommended Posts

I don't believe 1000' mags are on the drawing board at this time, but remember that 400' in 2-perf gives a run time of almost 9 minutes at 24fps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Penelope is an Aaton? You guys are excited about an Aaton camera? I'm soory guys but Aatons are maybe the worse engineered cameras still in existence. I think you're probably gettin' your hopes up for a BIG letdown. <_<

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Penelope is an Aaton? You guys are excited about an Aaton camera? I'm soory guys but Aatons are maybe the worse engineered cameras still in existence. I think you're probably gettin' your hopes up for a BIG letdown. <_<

 

 

I own an Arri SR3 and have no problem saying that the Aaton XTRprod is one of the best cameras ever built. Aatons are reliable, quiet, comfortable on the shoulder and are responsible for countless beautiful images. Do you have a reason for your tearing down a well respected camera manufacturer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tell me a brand new 35mm movie camera that ISN"T quiet or DOESN"T make a beautiful image. You had good luck with Aatons but you OWN an Arri, interesting. Aatons tend to be fragile, have mechanical problem and generally just don't hold up as well as Arri and certainly as well as Panavision. You may like them but to me it's like driving a Peugeot or a Citroen. They look good but break down all the time. The French are not well known for their precision engineering strengths where as the Germans are. You like the Aaton XTRprod, more power to ya, I have never met anyone who recommends Aatons as the first camera they would choose for production That's probably why they've developed a 2 perf camera, because in most cases, they're not the first choice so they wanted to appeal to lower end budget film makers who may have been able to pick one up somewhere along the way. But far be it from me to change your mind, if you like them, great, use them and keep the Arri in it's case, I personally will go with the Arri, Moviecam, Kinor and Panavision before using a new Aaton and even then it would be under protest. But then again that's just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I've never seen any more unsubstantiated, ill informed, vapid statements from a forum member outside of a Red conversation.

 

As someone who repairs both ARRIs and Aatons I can say that Aatons are far from fragile.

 

They used an Aaton on March of the Penguins.... in Antarctica You see Aatons in deserts and jungles, on top of mountains, underwater, even on the space shuttle.

 

They are not fragile nor are they badly engineered. In fact, they are one of the best designs out there. The mechanism and co-planar movement is really a beautiful thing.

 

Aaton is developing a 3p/2p camera as there are already many fine 4p cameras out there (why make another?) and they were looking at productions with DI's in mind. Additionally, down the line, you'll be able to purchase a digital back. I've been to the factory, I've seen the prototype and the cad drawings. It'll be one beautiful machine.

 

Additionally, I am capable of making similar statements about ARRI cameras. I know, because I've used them both extensively and repaired them both... seen their insides. They're both magnificent tools and to disparage the work of Jean-Pierre Beauviala and his engineers just shows a lack of sophistication or knowledge of cameras and engineering.

 

What vituperative nonsense, James. What absolutely shameful nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm soory guys but Aatons are maybe the worse engineered cameras still in existence.

 

 

What do you base this on? I personally have beat the hell out of my LTR including shooting in a 20 degree below ice storm and shooting out the side of a helicopter in January without it skipping a beat. I bought the camera from a Swedish geneticist who had made a documentary with it near the arctic circle. Far from fragile.

 

 

-Rob-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason I own an SR3 is because I found a great deal on one while looking for an XTRprod. Now I love my SR3, but I still remember why I was looking for an Aaton. I've even had great experiences with the Aaton 35-3, which is the only Aaton that has any sort of a questionable reputation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The French are not well known for their precision engineering strengths where as the Germans are.

 

Okay I admit it I'm a bit of a francophile but you are talking cliche'd bollocks here, infact there is a certain whif of 'freedom fries' about this statement.

 

You like the Aaton XTRprod, more power to ya, I have never met anyone who recommends Aatons as the first camera they would choose for production

 

There are shots that I would never been able to have achieved without an A-Minima and there are certainly DP's that choose Aatons as preference- Lance Acord for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I <3 Aaton's and their contoured, comfortable and ease of use on a long shooting day. I'll take on over any other brand any day...but I have NOTHING against other cameras, they're all amazing in their design and structure.

 

I know a guy who goes up to Alaska in the dead of winter with an Aaton A-Minima to shoot overnight timelapse of the aurora borealis, and in far below freezing temperatures, the camera has worked flawlessly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come ON, guys they jam ALL the time! Look, like I said, you guys love 'em, use 'em, I don't want to change your mind, but "Freedom Fries"!??. The French my drive me crazy at times but I hold no animosity towards the French. In fact if you know your history, there wouldn't BE a US of A if it wasn't for France so this isn't political, it's common knowledge like saying the French make better wine than anyone else, (although California is rapidly catching up) or the Swiss make the best watches. Germans ARE the best engineers. Without Von Braun we wouldn't have made it to the Moon and the Russians wouldn't have beat us in every other space first without THEIR German scientists, They invented jets, they invented guided missiles, they make the best cars and Arris next to Panavision, are the most used A cameras around, what more do you want?

 

The fact is in most cases the ONLY time you will see an Aaton on set is when someone is doing hand-held work and that's only because they're so light. They are rarely if EVER the A camera on any picture and may I remind you that March of the Penguins was a freakin' FRENCH movie, what'd you expect 'em to use a Mitchell?

 

Oh, and Nathan, you're RIGHT, I am SOOOO ashamed that I disagree with YOU. WHAT an unforgivable sin. I'm going now so I can move into a cave up in the hills and hide out so I don't subject myself to the decent folk anymore. HOW will society EVER forgive me! You're also right about another thing, why SHOULD Aaton make a 4 perf camera when there are already many fine 4p cameras out there, maybe because they KNOW they won't be able to compete with all those other fine 4p cameras. The one word I constantly hear about Aatons is "temperamental", The last thing I need on my set is a temperamental camera ESPECIALLY when I have enough problems with temperamental actors, you guys do what you want I'll stick with upgraded commiecams or Arris.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The fact is in most cases the ONLY time you will see an Aaton on set is when someone is doing hand-held work and that's only because they're so light. They are rarely if EVER the A camera on any picture and may I remind you that March of the Penguins was a freakin' FRENCH movie, what'd you expect 'em to use a Mitchell?

 

Thats because Aaton is a much smaller, not to mention younger company which hasn't got the industry stranglehold that both Arri and Panavision enjoy. When you use or load an Aaton camera you suddenly realize how lackluster (and strange) the Panavision builds are.

 

Of course March of the Penquins was shot on Aatons, and not because of national loyalty - but because it was shot on Super 16, and that means you either shoot Aaton or Arri, do I need to remind you that Panavision's own attempt at a 16mm cameras, the Pana 16 (Elaine) has long died out because they were simply inferior to the Aaton and Arri cameras - not to mention a headache.

 

And so what, you rarely see an Aaton camera in 35mm production as an A-cam, well they only currently have one 35mm camera out - the 35-III which is best suited as a location camera, but it was designed to be that way.

 

Infact the Aaton strategy seems to be to find niches in the market and build equipment to suit that, like the Aaton A-Minima ( the smallest 16mm production camera) or like with the Penelope a camera made for 2 perf operation.

 

In all the the motion picture camera manufactures, Aaton does not come late in the race, if anything 1st or 2nd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we talking cars or cine cameras? :unsure:

 

One should remember that most (continental) European movies before the 1950s were shot with French cameras, mostly Debrie. In fact, even manufacturers in Germany made licensed versions of French cameras, like Askania did with Debrie Parvo models. Printing machines and lab equipment from France was installed all over the world, certainly not because of unreliable or fragile construction.

 

The most innovative camera of the post WWII era, the Caméflex (aka. Camerette) has been used under very demanding circumstances - another French design.

 

Here in Germany, they used Super-Parvos and Super-Parvo Color cameras into the 1960s because the only alternative, an Arri 35 in a Blimp 300 (1000ft.) was almost as heavy and had no pin registration.

 

The only French camera that gave me trouble again and again was a Pathé Webo 16mm model that was a real pain in the a**, always breaking down when one part had been fixed.

 

 

BTW, even French cars are much better nowadays - and if you buy a German car which is not a BMW, Mercedes or Porsche, there's a good chance you will experience some quality problems formerly attributed to Italian cars like Fiat (they used to spell it in German F.I.A.T = Fehler in allen Teilen = Faulty in every part). ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Come ON, guys they jam ALL the time!

 

 

I have had my LTR for about 6 years now (I had a SR before that) and I would guess that I put something like 600,000-700,000' of film through the camera in that time, and maybe it jammed twice. Perhaps I am just a good loader (I am) Nathan just rebuilt the camera a few months back so....the camera was last serviced by Swedish TV about 10 yrs ago before that not exactly factory fresh for the 6yrs I have had it. My experience with the aaton is it is as reliable as the SR series from arri if you load it right like just about any other film camera.

 

-Rob-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Come ON, guys they jam ALL the time!

 

James,

 

Could you please describe what specific problems you had in the field with the aaton and what elements of the movement caused these jams that you have experienced? In other words, what specific element of the aaton movement do you find to be problematic in design that causes frequent jams? Please be specefic about what aaton models you were using at the times of these jams so we can better understand what exactly you are talking about.

 

On the topic of the Penelope: As I've mentioned before, I hope and anticipate that, like most aatons, Penelope will be an exciting camera to use with a creative, operator-friendly design.

 

Regards,

 

AJB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will say this for sure. Loaders get that glazed look in their eys when you mention shooting with an Aaton. Of course this has more to do with familiarity than anything else. Once they get the hang of it the potential problems dissappear. Both the 16mm and 35mm cameras are wonderful handheld and on steadicam. I do wish that the a-minima had an orientable eyepiece. Also since I've gotten into the habit of operating off the mag when on a fluid head the 35-III can be a problem ( don't do it, the camera tends to jam). Small complaints, I have more isues with HD, many more.

 

I look forward to the realease of the Penelope. With the advances in film stocks I have a feeling that 2-perf will be very popular for a long time. I just shot a 2:35 movie on spherical lenses. We shot 3-perf. The savings would have been substantial in stock and processing. That could have gotten me another technocrane day!

 

Paul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol: You Aaton guys are just too easy. I know where you keep that goat of your's tied up. I've been messing with you. I've never even picked up an Aaton. I haven't had this much fun sense I used to rag on the Ford guys when I was drag racing. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are we talking cars or cine cameras? :unsure:

 

- and if you buy a German car which is not a BMW, Mercedes or Porsche, there's a good chance you will experience some quality problems . ;)

 

What other German cars did you have in mind? The only thing left are Volkswagens and if that's the case, I tend to agree with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What other German cars did you have in mind? The only thing left are Volkswagens and if that's the case, I tend to agree with you.

 

I forgoit to mention Audi (they belong to Volkswagen) with a good quality record.

 

Opel belongs to General Motors, and they had a good name until Ignacio Lopez, the cost-cutting mastermind, put more pressure on engineering and production. Opel cars are sold under the name of Vauxhall internationally, don't know about the U.S.

 

If you want to see some beautiful 1950s Opels, look here and click left:

 

Opel Classics / History

 

Volkswagen used to have very good production quality, but during the last years serious quality issues have been troubling the customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah and the Rabbits had all those damn electrical problems, the was also the problem with the Porsche 924. I forgot about Audi too. Do they still make Opels? I thought they went under or were taken over or somethin'

Edited by James Steven Beverly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do they still make Opels? I thought they went under or were taken over or somethin'

 

Yeah they do. And quit your whinin', I own a new one. :P

Pretty good car and rather affordable to. Can't beat 1850 liters of cargo space and a length of 1.97m flat loading area when you fold the back seats down... :D

 

Ok, so now back to the topic. It will be interesting to see whether 2-perf can become serious competition for S16 in the amount of footage shot. Do you have any figures of how much 2-perf was shot in the last couple of years?

 

And why did Techniscope die in the late 70s in the first place?

 

Cheers, Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Gamma Ray Digital Inc



    G-Force Grips



    Visual Products



    Broadcast Solutions Inc



    Abel Cine



    FJS International



    The Original Slider



    Paralinx LLC



    Metropolis Post



    Glidecam



    Ritter Battery



    Tai Audio



    CineLab



    Just Cinema Gear



    Serious Gear



    Wooden Camera



    New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment



    Rig Wheels Passport



    Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS


    Cinematography Books and Gear
×
×
  • Create New...