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Salvador M. Rodrigues

Carl Zeiss Tevidon Primes

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Hi Everyone,

 

I just bought a set of 3 prime Carl Zeiss Tevidon on Ebay. A 10mm f2, a 25mm f1.4 and a 50mm f1.8.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1

 

 

I've been reading up on how the Tevidon 10mm was constructed by Nasa for star gazing and possesses very sharp with 0 distortion. But can anyone tell me more about them?

 

Also, on the item description it mentions to have a "movie Bayonet" I tried contacting the seller and ask if he could be more specific about it. From what I take it, there are various different bayonet mounts. I own a bolex ebm with it's bayonet mount, and considering the fact this transaction from Poland goes through, could you tell from the pictures if the lenses fit ?

 

I'm fairly new to 16mm so any clarifications would be greatly appreciated!

 

Best Regards

 

SMR

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Star gazing huh ? with a 10mm ??

 

No they wont fit yer bolex EBM... different bayonet style, not sure what that type is.. hopefully someone will be able to spec it and then you can search for adaptors.

 

Bummer is, you have another problem, that 10mm as clear or whatever it is with normal cameras might be turds on your EBM due to its prism ...

 

Have a read of this:

 

http://www.apecity.com/manuals/bolex_lense...6mm_cameras.pdf

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Star gazing huh ? with a 10mm ??

 

Hi Nick!

 

Thanks for the reply! I meant to say Star Mapping, don't know where my head was at the time..

 

A shame about the mount then but even more about the pdf you provided. I'll take a read at it more carefully later on. It's almost 7 am here in London and I've been up all night working on an edit! :blink:

 

All the best,

 

SMR

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A shame about the mount then but even more about the pdf you provided.

Its basially saying its a lottery with regards to chromatic abberation with any lenses but those branded 'RX' which are the Switars, and Schnieder/Century lenses (and a few others ???) ...

 

The problem will generally go away when you stop the lens down, but then yer fast lens is kinda redundant huh ...

 

Give em a test (film test that is, not just through your finder) - EBM huh, cool! welcome to Team Bolex

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Guest Ian Marks

I've seen these pop up from time to time. Apparently there's a whole range of Tevidon focal lengths - I have a hunch that they are East Germany's answer the Schneider C-mount lenses which cover 1" CCD cameras and which therefore also cover the image area on 16mm and Super 16 cameras. Note that the 10mm Tevidon looks something like the 10mm Schneider - although that may mean nothing. They were made in two mounts, the C-mount, which would have at least given you a fighting chance with your Bolex, and the weird bayonet which you, unfortunately, find yourself saddled. Your best hope is to have someone like Les Bosher construct an adapter of some sort, but the cost of doing this will far outweigh any savings you may have realized by buying these lenses. Even with an adapter, as Nick pointed out, you may still have issues with the 6mm on your Bolex.

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Guest Ian Marks

Duh - I meant 10mm, not 6mm. Sorry.

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Nick and Ian thanks for all the info provided. It was unfortunate that I picked up the strange bayonet mount. I actually haven't paid them yet and considering they are useless to me, I'm going to talk with the seller and see if I can cancel the deal. I should probably pay some "service charges" just to cover the seller's posting expenses.. But better that than to get stuck with unusable lenses!

 

BTW, with all the different bayonet mounts, what are the ones that would fit my Bolex ? What is the advantage of Bolex upgrading to the Bayonet rather than c-mount ? I can imagine to take heavier lenses as the turret on the previous models would be too fragil. But should I be looking into more powerful lenses such as the Arri or stick with c-mount ? What do you recommend ? I also have in mind for the near future to convert my camera do S16

 

Thank you!

 

SMR

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Guest Ian Marks

If you want to convert your camera to Super 16 you're in luck - the EBM is the least expensive camera to convert. If I were you I'd look for two lenses - the 16-100 Vario-Switar POE zoom (which covers Super 16), and a 10mm RX Switar wide angle (which may or may not cover Super 16, depending on the particular lens). You'll also need a Bolex Bayonet to C-mount adapter for the 10mm.

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If you want to convert your camera to Super 16 you're in luck - the EBM is the least expensive camera to convert. If I were you I'd look for two lenses - the 16-100 Vario-Switar POE zoom (which covers Super 16), and a 10mm RX Switar wide angle (which may or may not cover Super 16, depending on the particular lens). You'll also need a Bolex Bayonet to C-mount adapter for the 10mm.

 

Yep the EBM is easy to convert, it already has the 13x finder and the bayonet mount is easier - I've done my own SB and EL conversion here at home ...

 

Advantages of bayonet well if the lens is proper bayonet I have no qualms picking the camera up by the lens, c-mount no no! Also you can use c-mounts lenses on a bayonet cam, but not the other way round and also the aforementioned ease of super16 conversion - The adaptors come up on ebay about every 2 weeks if not more often, they must be rare as they tend to go for way more than their worth in metal, around $90 or so ...

 

Search for 'bolex bayonet' or 'bolex adaptor' ...

 

I'm not %100 convinced the POE covers at the wider end - the PTL and its 12.5-100 variants does indeed vignette, but as I understand it be converted at the Bolex factory to cover, not sure about the POE... Note also some of the POE lenses come in c-mount.

 

I always find it interesting when people mention this lottery when it comes to the 10mm Switars. I've had the pleasure of checking out 2 of the older style and three presets so far so as far as I'm concerned they all vignette, anyone who believes they don't has usually been shown footage that has been cropped to a wider aspect that removed the vignette which is clear to see in full frame 1.66 (super16) ...

 

You also are forced to state that the folks at Kern Switar either had bad manufacturing tolerances, made a super16 10mm either with no press/advertising or just changed it for the hell of it... Three unlikely scenarios.

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Guest Ian Marks
I always find it interesting when people mention this lottery when it comes to the 10mm Switars. I've had the pleasure of checking out 2 of the older style and three presets so far so as far as I'm concerned they all vignette, anyone who believes they don't has usually been shown footage that has been cropped to a wider aspect that removed the vignette which is clear to see in full frame 1.66 (super16) ...

 

You also are forced to state that the folks at Kern Switar either had bad manufacturing tolerances, made a super16 10mm either with no press/advertising or just changed it for the hell of it... Three unlikely scenarios.

 

Yep, I've never understood the "maybe it will cover, maybe it won't" reputation of the Switar, but that's what I keep hearing. I have a beater non-preset 10mm Switar somewhere in the back closet... wonder if I can find it...

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Ian and Nick,

 

Thanks for the insight. I actually have c-mount adapter already. I recently just got a 10mm Elitar Soligor C-mout lens, it is referred to as being a wide angle. But I was a bit dissapointed when I screwed it in as the angle wasn't as wide as I was expecting.

 

My other lens so far are the 16-100 zoom vario switar that came with the bolex, a kern paillard 150mm telephoto in c-mount, and two nikor primes from my old nikkormat 35mm still: 24mm and 70mm. Obivously the latter ones have a higher magnification, but looks really good.

 

When I see lenses from Arri and other 16mm high end cameras, I notice that the lenses are very bulky. It just leaves me a bit baffled that the kern switar lenses are so small and light. Obviously there must be a difference in sharpness ? So I guess my question could be remodeled as to what are the sharpest lenses out there that could accomodate the ebm ?

 

Thanks !

 

SMR

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Guest Ian Marks

10mm is a handy focal length, and it is a wide angle, but of course you can go wider.

 

I'm not sure what you mean about the two Nikkor lenses having higher magnification - I guess you mean that they're longer than the 10mm. However, the 24mm Nikkor should provide exactly the same field of view as your zoom at 24mm, and a 50mm will give exactly the same field of view as the zoom at 50mm, and so on.

 

Regarding the "high end" lenses appearing bulkier, don't assume that bigger is better (insert your own joke here). The Switar lenses are generally regarded to be very good... even the little bitty ones.

 

The larger lenses you've seen on Arris and Aatons and such are probably designed for use with a geared follow focus unit and matte box. They have a uniform diameter to accomodate the focus gears. Additionally, those are probably "superspeed" lenses with a very fast maximum aperture.

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When I see lenses from Arri and other 16mm high end cameras, I notice that the lenses are very bulky. It just leaves me a bit baffled that the kern switar lenses are so small and light. Obviously there must be a difference in sharpness ? So I guess my question could be remodeled as to what are the sharpest lenses out there that could accomodate the ebm ?

 

The relex mirror on an Arri is considerably larger than a prism on a Bolex.

Thus the rear element on the C-mount can be a lot closer to the film plane than one on an Arri.

The design for the Arri lens will need larger elements up front to acheive a greater rear element distance to

the film plane.

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out of curiosity...

 

could some one maybe clarify what the difference is

between the super speeds and these tevidons?

 

obviously the super speeds are a bit faster...

but is that a $1000 difference?

 

would the tevidons be about as contrasty as the speeds?

do they have the same coatings?

 

thanks

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out of curiosity...

 

could some one maybe clarify what the difference is

between the super speeds and these tevidons?

 

First the Tevidons were made by Zeiss Jena DDR which is not the same company as Carl Zeiss Oberkochen

which made the Highspeeds.

 

Zeiss Jena was in East Germany, a communist country while Zeiss Oberkochen is in West germany,.

Of course West germany bought East Germany & it's now one big happy reich.

 

& the Tevidions are TV lenses.

 

I'm dubious that NASA would have went to a company behind the Iron Curtain to develop a lens for them.

Could you or your source be confusing them with the f/0.7 Zeiss Oberkochen lenses that were adapted for 'Barry Lyndon'?

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has anybody here used the jena tevidons? im wondering if they can do high resolution. also trying to figure out if the bayonet mounted ones have enough back focus for me to have another mount cut for them.

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Hello,

I already own the Zeiss Tevidon 10mm f2, and I just won on EBay the 25mm f1.4, and the 16mm f1.8. There is amazingly little information about these C-mount Tevidons, and I simply could not take the curiosity any longer. I paid a lot for the 10mm on Ebay, over $300 (at the advice of a camera/lens tech who you all know very well. But looking back I should have taken that advice with a grain of salt...since they sell brand new for around $400). Luckily, it was in mint condition. I have not shot any tests yet, but I bought a highly detailed resolution chart for just that purpose. FYI, this 10mm seems amazingly free of barrel distortion, and easily covers the Super16 frame, with apparently a bit to spare. It also appears sharp from edge to edge, which is one of the boasts on the site that sells them (doktor optics, or doctor optic, or something like that). But, that is only through the viewfinder. I wrote to the company which I just mentioned relentlessly, asking for additional specs, and if a tech there could tell me the resolution in lp/mm. They were not helpful at all.

 

Well, I will soon have a complete set. My ACL is getting prepped for production, so by the time I get it back, the lenses will have arrived.

 

I am pretty new here, but I will do my best to contribute by posting my results on these highly unknown (but perhaps excellent lenses)....as soon as I have solid results. I will attempt to post clips after some of the footage is transfered.

 

Oh, some posts I have read on different forums, confirm the claim that these are very sharp lenses. But then, conflicting information is everywhere. We shall see soon enough.

 

If anyone has any info they would like to add, please do. These might make a better alternative to using C-mount Switar lenses on various C-mount cameras, like the Eclair ACL.

 

(I'll leave this same message on a few other threads which are discussing the Tevidons)

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Hi. I had a 10mm Tevidon C-mount. I had to clear the rear brass ring to fit properly in a Bolex camera (touched with the support turret). As before explained it covers S16, with very low distorsion, but with rare yellow tonality. Really sharp, but in the Bolex S16 I had to close at least T4.5 to have good focus at the edges (due to the camera prism. The iris unit is very close to the back focus...). Hope this help.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I just bought a set of 3 prime Carl Zeiss Tevidon on Ebay. A 10mm f2, a 25mm f1.4 and a 50mm f1.8.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1

 

 

I've been reading up on how the Tevidon 10mm was constructed by Nasa for star gazing and possesses very sharp with 0 distortion. But can anyone tell me more about them?

 

Also, on the item description it mentions to have a "movie Bayonet" I tried contacting the seller and ask if he could be more specific about it. From what I take it, there are various different bayonet mounts. I own a bolex ebm with it's bayonet mount, and considering the fact this transaction from Poland goes through, could you tell from the pictures if the lenses fit ?

 

I'm fairly new to 16mm so any clarifications would be greatly appreciated!

 

Best Regards

 

SMR

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Hi Everyone,

 

I just bought a set of 3 prime Carl Zeiss Tevidon on Ebay. A 10mm f2, a 25mm f1.4 and a 50mm f1.8.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1

 

 

I've been reading up on how the Tevidon 10mm was constructed by Nasa for star gazing and possesses very sharp with 0 distortion. But can anyone tell me more about them?

 

Also, on the item description it mentions to have a "movie Bayonet" I tried contacting the seller and ask if he could be more specific about it. From what I take it, there are various different bayonet mounts. I own a bolex ebm with it's bayonet mount, and considering the fact this transaction from Poland goes through, could you tell from the pictures if the lenses fit ?

 

I'm fairly new to 16mm so any clarifications would be greatly appreciated!

 

Best Regards

 

SMR

 

********************************************************************************

************************************

Salvador:

 

The 10mm went up with NASA to map the stars, minus distortion, for measurement and calculation purposes. Zero practical distortion. Said to cost approx. 5 to 8 thousand then. Front element heavier than steel, costlier than gold of same weight.

 

Aware of 10mm, 16, 25, 35, 50, 70, 100 lengths, and two zooms; 18-90, 15-150. Covers 1". I have all these; have heard of a 40.

 

Came out in at least two issues; original fat barrel, heavy solid brass/steel, and later, smaller, thinner aluminum housing'ed version.

 

Earliest versions, about 1978? New still available from Germany and environs.

 

Originally produced for East German social observation cameras requiring highest quality image. Current Zeiss and Leitz primes applying same materials, etc..

 

Google Docter Optics, download Tevidon brochure. New company still producing part of the line. Hyper quality, resolution, etc..

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Hi Everyone,

 

I just bought a set of 3 prime Carl Zeiss Tevidon on Ebay. A 10mm f2, a 25mm f1.4 and a 50mm f1.8.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1

 

 

I've been reading up on how the Tevidon 10mm was constructed by Nasa for star gazing and possesses very sharp with 0 distortion. But can anyone tell me more about them?

 

Also, on the item description it mentions to have a "movie Bayonet" I tried contacting the seller and ask if he could be more specific about it. From what I take it, there are various different bayonet mounts. I own a bolex ebm with it's bayonet mount, and considering the fact this transaction from Poland goes through, could you tell from the pictures if the lenses fit ?

 

I'm fairly new to 16mm so any clarifications would be greatly appreciated!

 

Best Regards

 

SMR

 

Oh, and the bayonet on the lens, for the robotic cameras, comes off with the same three screws that put on the C mount. Only one screw pattern used. Back focus maintained. Easy, three minutes, done it many times. Buy bayonet lenses, AND C mount, and change as needed.

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The 10mm went up with NASA to map the stars, minus distortion, for measurement and calculation purposes.resolution, etc..

 

HI, 1) we use our real names on this forum. Seems more personal that way, please adjust your account.

 

2) do you have a reference for that statment, I have a bit of concern that NASA would be dealing with the East German Photoindustry, unless the mission in question was in cooperation with the Russians or the FSU.

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i cant wait to see some lens tests with these things. anybody going to shoot them with a resolution chart in the near future?

 

 

 

Me me me me me!!!!

 

:-)

 

 

As mentioned, I have the 10mm, the 16mm, and the 25mm. On this same forum, I have heard it mentioned that these Tevidons have extreme resolution. I would be very very surprised at that, if it is the case, but my resolution charts tests will prove this soon enough. There was another lens manufacturer I was looking into, called Navitar, which makes "high quality" industrial lenses. The main appeal for me, is that a few of their most usable Super16-covering focal lengths were......f0.95!!!! Oh how I was thrilled! I immediately began writing them, and talking to thier techs, and having them research what the lp/mm was on those several f0.95 lenses (if I recall, the lengths on those were 12mm, 16mm, and 25mm). I was very hopefull. I didnt think they would reach the otherworldly 200 lp/mm resolution of the high-end Zeiss and Cooke optics, but anything even getting close to that would still be usable. Hell, even half of that would be acceptable.

 

Finally I got an answer. Get ready:

 

20 lp/mm

 

:-(

 

 

 

 

Thats pretty pathetic, isnt it? And these guys are rather respected too. But resolutions of 20 lp/mm are more then good enough for industrial applications. So, knowing this, I would find it highly unlikely that my Zeiss Tevidons are significantly higher in resolution. Why would they have designed them as such? There just doesnt seem to be any benefit to the manufacturer to over-design an industrial lens, since that would be wasted time, resources, and ultimately, profit.

 

I am made hopefull by what I have been hearing though. And hopefully my Tevidons beat that 20 lp/mm number by quite a bit.

 

I would be very curious to hear if there is any sort of guidline regarding what is "acceptable" for HD, in terms of lp/mm. Or what would be acceptable for blow-up to 35mm. Are there any such "minimum requirement" rules of thumb?

 

And again, I will be shouting quite loudly after I do these resolution tests on the Tevidons. But, I honestly am not sure how to do them yet. The instructions for the resolution chart are as long as War&Peace. There are many considerations to getting a reliable and accurate lp/mm reading using this chart, including aperture, distance from chart, film grain, edge/center, illumination, secondary tests, ect ect. I find it very easy to believe that doing everything according to the book, you will get two different numbers out of two tests. So I will do my best to eliminate all variables. If anyone has any advice, please cast it down.

 

Thanks

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Me me me me me!!!!

 

:-)

 

 

As mentioned, I have the 10mm, the 16mm, and the 25mm. On this same forum, I have heard it mentioned that these Tevidons have extreme resolution. I would be very very surprised at that, if it is the case, but my resolution charts tests will prove this soon enough. There was another lens manufacturer I was looking into, called Navitar, which makes "high quality" industrial lenses. The main appeal for me, is that a few of their most usable Super16-covering focal lengths were......f0.95!!!! Oh how I was thrilled! I immediately began writing them, and talking to thier techs, and having them research what the lp/mm was on those several f0.95 lenses (if I recall, the lengths on those were 12mm, 16mm, and 25mm). I was very hopefull. I didnt think they would reach the otherworldly 200 lp/mm resolution of the high-end Zeiss and Cooke optics, but anything even getting close to that would still be usable. Hell, even half of that would be acceptable.

 

Finally I got an answer. Get ready:

 

20 lp/mm

 

:-(

 

 

 

 

Thats pretty pathetic, isnt it? And these guys are rather respected too. But resolutions of 20 lp/mm are more then good enough for industrial applications. So, knowing this, I would find it highly unlikely that my Zeiss Tevidons are significantly higher in resolution. Why would they have designed them as such? There just doesnt seem to be any benefit to the manufacturer to over-design an industrial lens, since that would be wasted time, resources, and ultimately, profit.

 

I am made hopefull by what I have been hearing though. And hopefully my Tevidons beat that 20 lp/mm number by quite a bit.

 

I would be very curious to hear if there is any sort of guidline regarding what is "acceptable" for HD, in terms of lp/mm. Or what would be acceptable for blow-up to 35mm. Are there any such "minimum requirement" rules of thumb?

 

And again, I will be shouting quite loudly after I do these resolution tests on the Tevidons. But, I honestly am not sure how to do them yet. The instructions for the resolution chart are as long as War&Peace. There are many considerations to getting a reliable and accurate lp/mm reading using this chart, including aperture, distance from chart, film grain, edge/center, illumination, secondary tests, ect ect. I find it very easy to believe that doing everything according to the book, you will get two different numbers out of two tests. So I will do my best to eliminate all variables. If anyone has any advice, please cast it down.

 

Thanks

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