Matt Meyer Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 I teach in a small film school in Oregon. I'm looking for a studio dolly with a hydraulic boom. While I'd love a Chapman or Fisher, I expect a Moviola or McAlister is more in my price range. However, I've been searching online for a year, and have only seen a couple for sale. Question 1) Anyone have a garage full of old Moviola dollies? Question 2) It seems most student filmmakers are using skateboard dollies. I want to train my students in the "right" way to do things, but maybe that's changed since I was in film school 15 years ago. With cameras getting lighter and lighter, do we still need a big studio dolly? Thanks much, Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Gus Sacks Posted July 12, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted July 12, 2007 I teach in a small film school in Oregon. I'm looking for a studio dolly with a hydraulic boom. While I'd love a Chapman or Fisher, I expect a Moviola or McAlister is more in my price range. However, I've been searching online for a year, and have only seen a couple for sale. Question 1) Anyone have a garage full of old Moviola dollies? Question 2) It seems most student filmmakers are using skateboard dollies. I want to train my students in the "right" way to do things, but maybe that's changed since I was in film school 15 years ago. With cameras getting lighter and lighter, do we still need a big studio dolly? Thanks much, Matt Well, what skateboard dollies can boom? Haha, if your students wanted the best, they'd beg for the good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny N Suleimanagich Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 http://www.alangordon.com/s_dollyjibs.html#pd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Michael Nash Posted July 12, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted July 12, 2007 With cameras getting lighter and lighter, do we still need a big studio dolly? "Big" is relative, but yes. ;) Even lightweight cameras can benefit from more substantial support, although prosumer gear can get away with much less. A good O'connor 2575 head still weighs the same amount, so you still need enough support for that, plus the operator. And on the professional side, most newer HD and 35mm cameras aren't all that much lighter, especially with all the accessories. Here's an F900 from a recent shoot in "base" configuration (on a Fisher dolly): The "low budget" 35mm feature I just finished Gaffing/2nd unit DPing used Panavision G2's, which are just as heavy as they ever were. And Arri BL 4's still get a lot of use for low-budget 35mm work. I believe Chapman only leases their gear. Not sure about Fisher. You might look into Panther and Movietech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan snyder Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Matt, I teach in a film department at a University in Idaho. We may not be far apart geographically. Anyway, We rent a fischer 10 for a great price because fischer gives a serious discount to academic institutions. BTW, if you really need a big dolly you might also consider a Fearless. I personally have both a Fearless and a Mcalister, and I sometimes prefer the old monstrous fearless, but no modern production crew will take a fearless seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Sprung Posted July 12, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted July 12, 2007 I teach in a small film school in Oregon. I'm looking for a studio dolly with a hydraulic boom. While I'd love a Chapman or Fisher, I expect a Moviola or McAlister is more in my price range. However, I've been searching online for a year, and have only seen a couple for sale. Question 1) Anyone have a garage full of old Moviola dollies? Question 2) It seems most student filmmakers are using skateboard dollies. I want to train my students in the "right" way to do things, but maybe that's changed since I was in film school 15 years ago. With cameras getting lighter and lighter, do we still need a big studio dolly? Thanks much, Matt The important thing for students to learn about the dolly is that it's the most efficient way to get from one setup to another. That's its main purpose, not making moving shots. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 It seems most student filmmakers are using skateboard dollies. I want to train my students in the "right" way to do things, but maybe that's changed since I was in film school 15 years ago. With cameras getting lighter and lighter, do we still need a big studio dolly? Thanks much, Matt When I was in film school I used a skateboard dolly with PVC pipes are track Sometimes we used a wheelchair for better mobility That's how we learn how to create dolly shots... However I've been gripping for several years now and I almost only use a JL Fischer 11 or 10 Sometimes I see a Chapman PeeWee or older hydraulics dolly But rarerly ever do we work with a skateboard dolly. In the professional set the standard is the Fischer. (Which conicidentally aren't sold but leased to companies like a car, contact Fischer to see their rates) However it's important to learn what the purpose of a dolly and the shot is for... If I haven't learn on a skateboard and wheelchair dolly and consequently older hydraulic dollies I wouldn't be a better grip for it. My experience with different forms of equipment helped honed my skills and taught me the importance of problem solving (an invaluable set skill for a grip) & helped me to know what to do when I finally got to handle better equipment. Consequently you have to ask yourself are you teaching your student to become grips or filmmakers If you are teaching them how to be a grip than yes getting a hydraulic dolly will be very beneficial But if they want to become filmmakers the benefit of a hydraulic dolly isn't that important there's other skills they can be learning. So don't worry about not having the best dolly available you're students will eventually learn to use them when necessary. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adam Frisch FSF Posted August 22, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted August 22, 2007 You can't buy either Chapman or Fisher - they're only leased. There's a german company called Movie Tech that was started by ex-Panther employees and they produce some pretty cool dollies. One is the PeeWee-killer, the Arco: http://www.movietech.de/English/arco_e.htm They've also refined the column design dolly (like the Panther) in their Magnum dolly. This is the ultimate Panther, so to speak. The Magnum has the smoothest column in the business - no Fisher or Chapman comes close to it for smoothness and precision. It's also got a lot of other improvements. Of course, center column dollies are an aquired taste, since they become a bit awkward when you have to hang snakes on them to get the camera low. I'm personally a big defender of them in a solid PeeWee-ified grip community. but they're not right for all jobs. Check it out: http://www.movietech.de/English/magnum_e.htm One great thing with Panther/Magnums is that the operator can control the column as he's operating with the remote attached to the pan bar. This makes for smoother jibs because no matter how experienced a grip is, he will struggle to do feathered and smooth jibs at the same time as he's tracking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Rogers Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 You can't buy either Chapman or Fisher - they're only leased. There's a german company called Movie Tech that was started by ex-Panther employees and they produce some pretty cool dollies. One is the PeeWee-killer, the Arco: So do you know how much the Arco costs? Or is it rental only like Fisher? Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 If you've ever used an Arco you know it's no Pee-Wee killer. It's more like a career killer when it breaks down on your job. It was really fun watching the wheel fly off while we were free-wheeling down a hallway once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adam Frisch FSF Posted August 23, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted August 23, 2007 That wheel falling off wasn't good, but since it isn't leased but owned by the rental company, maybe they hadn't maintained it properly? I just find the grip community more conservative than Pinochet at times. I even here have trouble getting Fisher 11's on my job because the grips moan and want the PeeWee instead. That's what they learned on, that's what they're gonna use, come hell or high water. Don't get me wrong, the PeeWee Mark 4 is a fine dolly, but the Fishers lateral stability in the jib is better. So if I know I'm going to be hanging the camera far out on an extension, I find Fishers better. They're also better to stand on and I like that little block battery compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 That wheel falling off wasn't good, but since it isn't leased but owned by the rental company, maybe they hadn't maintained it properly? It was the third rental, tenth day of paid work on the dolly. And yes, it was assembled properly in the first place. The cotter pins were of an inferior design and had to be modified to be trustworthy. I agree that grips don't like to change their tools, although I usually find it the other way -- they want to use the Fischer 11 while I want the small size and versatility of the PeeWee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 What about the Moviola dollies, I know they are old and heavy but they look pretty good and are cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Nothing wrong with a Movieola, other than it is a huge beast that is not as manuverable, cannot mount on track and doesn't have accessories like the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Swaim Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I know it isn't up to the pee-wee or arco level of features but has anyone here used a Premier studio PD-1 dolly? If so was it worth a look or is it just an also ran? http://www.premierstudioequipment.com/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Neary Posted September 1, 2007 Share Posted September 1, 2007 I've wondered about these too- especially while sitting on an apple box on a doorway dolly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 It's certainly better than a doorway with an apple box, but I don't think there's an outfit out there that rents them. At the price point this is pretty much a purchase-only dolly. But it does work just fine. Don't bother with their attempt at a high end "PeeWee-like" dolly, the Phantom dolly (not to be confused with the high speed digital cameras). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chad Stockfleth Posted September 3, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted September 3, 2007 I pretty much split my time between sitting on an apple box on a doorway, and sitting on a fischer 10/11. Can you guess which I prefer? If your students don't appreciate the ability to boom, I think they need detention. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d humber Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 That wheel falling off wasn't good, but since it isn't leased but owned by the rental company, maybe they hadn't maintained it properly? I just find the grip community more conservative than Pinochet at times. I even here have trouble getting Fisher 11's on my job because the grips moan and want the PeeWee instead. That's what they learned on, that's what they're gonna use, come hell or high water. Don't get me wrong, the PeeWee Mark 4 is a fine dolly, but the Fishers lateral stability in the jib is better. So if I know I'm going to be hanging the camera far out on an extension, I find Fishers better. They're also better to stand on and I like that little block battery compartment. Actually the Fisher 11 is one of the most unstable dollies on the market. The arm doesn't have the lifting capacity to handle a standard 35 mm camera. it is slow on the up and rushes the downs. Also, the design makes it inherently unstable. The Fisher is a "box" meaning the wheels are under the chassis. The Chapman peewee and Hybrid wheels are on outriggers making the chassis more stable. Due to a problem, my name has been misprinted. It is Darryl Humber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d humber Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 It was the third rental, tenth day of paid work on the dolly. And yes, it was assembled properly in the first place. The cotter pins were of an inferior design and had to be modified to be trustworthy. I agree that grips don't like to change their tools, although I usually find it the other way -- they want to use the Fischer 11 while I want the small size and versatility of the PeeWee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d humber Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Its not a matter of what they learned on. The Fisher is a vastly inferior dolly. As a dolly grip of almost 20 years I can tell you that the Pee Wee is the best small dolly around. The Fisher 11 arm cannot handle the weight of a 35 mm camera properly to meet the demands of a feature film/television show. It's not a stable dolly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmet Cahill Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Wow my ears pricked up when i saw your post, are you saying a Dolly is just used for getting a Camera from one place to another? The important thing for students to learn about the dolly is that it's the most efficient way to get from one setup to another. That's its main purpose, not making moving shots. -- J.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted October 19, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted October 19, 2007 Wow my ears pricked up when i saw your post, are you saying a Dolly is just used for getting a Camera from one place to another? Not only for that but cameras in general spend more time on a dolly that isn't moving than a dolly on a track and moving. It's the quickest way to move through setups on smooth-ish terrain, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rizzi Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Here's an F900 from a recent shoot in "base" configuration (on a Fisher dolly): Hey is that me??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Swaim Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 are you saying that the students should think of the beginning of the dolly movement and the end point of the movement as two set-ups and not think of the dolly as a way of making a moving shot? Or are you saying that they should use the dolly as a tripod and just push it in to place between shots??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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