Getting name actors... is SAG necessary?

Jim Simon · July 22, 2007

The DGA allowed it on "Star Wars" because he was the director, but not on "Empire", hence why he was fined and then quit the DGA.

I'm recalling not an article, but an interview with Lucas in the documentary "Empire of Dreams", included with the box set. I was certain he said he wanted Speilberg for "Empire", but had already quit the DGA and they told Speilberg he couldn't do it.

I'll have to watch that again.

July 22, 2007

"I mean, what can happen to a big sports figure when they refuse to pay a fine to the league or their team?"

Well the team or league like the NHL, NBA, NFL, can actually stop the player from playing in that case. They own the fanchises and the leagues etc.

But in the case of movies...tough to stop people from making movies and distributing them in some way.

I've always made money by going around the "gate keepers" and straight to the end user. No one can stop me from doing that. Sure I've pissed off a lot of people in doing so, tough.

This is why I like the Feature Films For Families model so much. They make their own movies, and then sell them direct to the public via telemarketing. No Walmarts, no studios, no distributors. Movie-to-public, end story.

Please spare me the, "well if you want to make family movies that no one ever hears of, etc etc etc." They make movies and they make money. Considering the high number of 100 million dollar flops Hollywood has turned out, who are they to talk?

R,

David Mullen ASC · July 22, 2007

Obviously anyone with money can make a movie, and Hollywood distributors would consider buying them. My point is that any big-budget movie made in the U.S. is likely to be studio-funded, and the studios are guild signatories, and if not, likely to use union actors, technicians, and perhaps directors, screenwriters. If you want to hire a DGA director, then it has to be a DGA production, because unlike IATSE workers who can work non-union, they are not allowed to work on non-DGA stuff.

Sure, there are plenty of U.S. productions that get around the unions but they tend to be smaller in budget, just as there are people who play sports who aren't in the major leagues.

After spending a decade shooting non-union features and maybe making $20,000/yr if I shot three a year, I can tell you that for the technicians, it's not really a viable way of earning a living unless you shoot commercials or other things that pay better than features.

ryan_bennett · July 22, 2007

Empire was Lucas' problems with the DGA, Return of the Jedi's problem was he wanted Spielberg to direct it, but he couldn't because it was non-union so Lucas even went to David Lynch. Spielberg was the first option of Return of the Jedi, and Lucas had to settle for Richard Marquand and thus took a larger role on the production.

Here's some further proof but this information is in most books on Lucas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Epi...urn_of_the_Jedi

Edited July 22, 2007 by ryan_bennett

Mark Bonnington · July 23, 2007

If you are going to do a non-SAG you must announce it and inform the SAG actors you are doing a "SAG Corp" production. The actors must make the declaration to SAG by written notice, otherwise the actor is liable for fines because the actor is violation of his agreement with SAG if he fails to do so. He cannot be fined pursuant to a Supreme Court decision, but the actor must make the declaration prior to engaging in the non-SAG production.

What what?? What case did the supreme court announce this in? Does this mean I can get any SAG actor and they don't have to pay any fines for doing a non-SAG movie? Why is a non-SAG production called a "SAG Corp" production? That sounds like I'd be announcing that I'm piggybacking my production onto a different, SAG associated, corporation.

Edited July 23, 2007 by Mark Bonnington

Christopher Kennedy Alpiar · August 7, 2007

Many union actors don't give a damn about SAG. They work where they want, you can hire who you want.

These unions are not the freaking law or the police, they can't force you to do any thing you don't want to do.

If a SAG actor works on a non-union shoot for $100.00/day what are they going to do to him, have him killed?

So you can hire a SAG actor for a $100.00/day minimum for a film budgeted under 200K? Wow! That's the USA and I paid all my NON-union actors $300.00/day minimum and two got $1000.00 day in Canada!

R,

Actually to the actors it is the law and the police, most often representing them not against them. But when you are a union member and do a non union gig, you run the risk of HUGE fines and being even kicked out of the union. And where would a serious actor work if he was kicked out of SAG... yeap thats right, making pornos MAYBE. So yea there are scabs out there but generally its the bottom of the barrel with only rare exception. As a musician and member of AFM I can tell you in Seattle they are currently fining ANY MUSICIAN caught recording non-union film score sessions $50,000.00US or be kicked out of AFM. That is a particular hardball attempt at breaking up the non-union seattle orchestra but there is an excellent example of playing in big leagues against the unions. I only wish there was a union for composers so I could get some Hoffa types to back me up with what I do :) Maybe some day

Important point! If you try and scate by the union(s) what you are doing is setting up your life to weaken the lives of other people. As artists it is our fundamental purpose to create works of art that help this rotten world we live in, not to abuse what we can to make a quick buck. So learn how the unions operate and get in a habit of working with them. In the end it is a better path for you and everyone that works with you

Edited August 7, 2007 by Christopher Kennedy Alpiar

rik carter · August 13, 2007

What what?? What case did the supreme court announce this in? Does this mean I can get any SAG actor and they don't have to pay any fines for doing a non-SAG movie? Why is a non-SAG production called a "SAG Corp" production? That sounds like I'd be announcing that I'm piggybacking my production onto a different, SAG associated, corporation.

Lance could be referring to "financial core" - http://www.bizparentz.com/coreTruth.html and http://www.futurenet-surf.com/wwwboard1/messages/122.html

The SAG rules aren't federal (or state) laws enforced by the government - they are an agreement between actors and producers. However the government DID weigh in on the rights of individuals - if a SAG member agrees to work for you without using the union agreement they can. But they know the consequences of making that decision.

C Kenneybrew · August 15, 2007

As a independent filmmaker. Are you required to be with SAG or DGA to get top actors? What are the advantages of being SAG or DGA? How much does it cost to become part of it? Are there any fine print about ownership and other situations?

C Kenneybrew · August 15, 2007

Also does anyone know if there is a film library in Los Angeles/ Where?Thanks.

C.

rik carter · August 16, 2007

No filmmaker is required to join either union. As several people have already said, "top actors" are members of SAG so in

order to hire them your company will need to sign an agreement with the union - meaning you agree to follow their rules

regarding payment, scheduling and hours. The advantages of being SAG or DGA are the available talent and the bargaining

strength of any union regarding pay scale and benefits. For specific info regarding fees and eligibility you should call. They

are usually happy to give you the information you need.

What do you mean by a "film library"? A library that has books about filmmaking? Or a library that has a lot of movies?

Adamo P Cultraro · August 22, 2007

If you want SAG actors your production must be a SAG signatory. I say your production - not your company. Example - you decide to make a short film - that short film must come under a SAG agreement to cover the talent.

Sure, a SAG actor can be naughty and just work for you - it's really his problem not yours - but he faces a host of trouble from SAG.

Actually, my wife is a SAG actress and I use her all the time in my stuff without asking SAG. I figure if I have to check before I film my wife SAG can go piss up a rope. But she could get in trouble, theoretically.

C Kenneybrew · August 22, 2007

No filmmaker is required to join either union. As several people have already said, "top actors" are members of SAG so in
order to hire them your company will need to sign an agreement with the union - meaning you agree to follow their rules

regarding payment, scheduling and hours. The advantages of being SAG or DGA are the available talent and the bargaining

strength of any union regarding pay scale and benefits. For specific info regarding fees and eligibility you should call. They

are usually happy to give you the information you need.

What do you mean by a "film library"? A library that has books about filmmaking? Or a library that has a lot of movies?

Thanks.

Film Libraries with movies.

C Kenneybrew · August 22, 2007

So as a film maker. According to one day shoot. How much are you supposed to pay actors SAG or NON Union. And the crew members like AD, best boy, cameras,extras, etc. How much on an average?

Also as a director should I own more than one camera.

How does the process happen that a director gets hired by a big production company?Or is it the same as any other job process?

James Steven Beverly · August 22, 2007

SAG has 5, count 'em, FIVE different low budget plans. They are the most indy film friendly union out there. If you sign with SAG under some of these agreements, you CAN use a star and still use non-union actors to fill in the ranks. Read the agreements, they're not that hard to live with.