cramped interiors

[vikash nowlakha]

here's a situation.. shooting on the 18th floor of an appartment - 20 ft by 10 ft room. Shooting a wide shot into a L, where on one side we've got a white wall, the other a big window. No place outside the window for any lights. We have dark skinned actors standing all over the place. Any HMI sources from inside this tiny room will spill everywhere, be too harsh and cause ugly shadows as there's no room to diffuse it. Nd down the windows - but that cut source light as the actor approaches the window. Any ideas.

[Greg Gross]

Picture in your mind the white wall as a fill reflector. Get a large soft light up

in the ceiling if high enough. Can you cover the floor so its white? Or use white

reflectors on floor where they are needed. Your key light will be a large soft

source(box) with even light from center to edges of box(even). Place back of

soft box along side of your actors(I wish I could draw you a diagram) the back

of the soft box next to your actors is the key light as you come forward from

the back of the soft box, front of soft box(front end)this is your fill light. You'll

need a fairly good sized soft box. You could also use silver or gold reflectors

on floor depending on the effect you want . I wish I knew more about your

scene. Quanity of light you need,quality of light,mood. The soft box is two lights

in one, key and fill by utilizing back and front edges. oh! well I just visualized

this quickly, I enjoy thinking quickly and trying to solve problems. You can control

intensity of soft light(box) by moving closer or farther away from actors. Of

course the size of your room will limit you. If you want to continue with this you

may e-mail me at pd170user@yahoo.com..

 

Greg Gross,Professioinal Photographer

Student Cinematographer

[Adam Frisch FSF]

I'd let it ride and maybe just fill (if even) from the camera slightly. That white wall is going to bounce back so much daylight anyway, you'll be fighting every inch.

 

It's hard as DP to NOT light because you don't think you've done your job properly. But sometimes it's not only the best thing to do, it's the only thing to do.

[Patrick Neary]

Agreed (with Mr. Frisch) This sounds like a perfect situation to find the best time of day for natural light and go with it, maybe bringing in a little fill or even negative fill to clean things up. Also, a 400w joker can be a wonderful thing if there's room to squirrel it away somewhere.

 

Unless it's a matter of trying to maintain consistency over 3 days of 16-hour shoots, in which case.....good luck!

[Greg Gross]

Are you just going to give up on this problem or are you going to try to

do it? Do you absolutely want to shoot in this room ? Cause if you do than

the lighting of your room needs to be accomplished. I for one am sick and tired

of people running from rooms with windows(just too hard to do) and opting for

the easy way out. How are you ever going to learn to light if you don't work

with light in impossible places and try to control it. If the windows are not in

the frame and will not be visible in the frame, lets cover them with some kind

of diffusion material to cut down on the hard light reflecting off the white wall.

Soft light is the only quality of light you can use here. Is there any room for

use of flags?,it sounds like there is'nt. Why don't you try the large soft light I

suggested if not workable maybe a large soft light (box) near and above camera.

We still don't know what mood,look you want. Maybe two soft light sources,one

near the actors and one near the camera and above it. I'm assuming you cannot

put large soft light in ceiling. Well my friend its up to you,but if it was me and I

really wanted to shoot in that room,I would damn well find a way to do it! If I

can help you solve the problem please post because by now I feel like I'm the

dp and thats what the director wants. I know you can't use HMI's thats rather

elementary Watson. If windows must be in your frame then its going to be a

whole new ballgame. I'm going to stay up late working on this problem, I will

post when mission is accomplished. Maybe a bunch of china balls?

[Bob Hayes]

I have faced this same problem many times. Shooting at the right time of day can be very helpful. I would recommend a time when the buildings outside the window are back lit. Therefore less bright. That might also give you a nice backlight in the room. As strange as this may sound I have often lit this situation with a large HMI bounce of a white card on the floor. When I say large I mean a 2.5 or 4k HMI. This looked soft and natural. NDing the windows is too time consuming and no mater how carefully it is done the wrinkles will look terrible. Also if you ND the windows and the light changes during the day you are doomed. Smaller HMI are to hard and make the scene look lit. Higher sources often reflect into the windows.

[Patrick Neary]

"I know you can't use HMI's thats rather

elementary Watson. "

 

I'm dying to know what the reasoning behind this is.... ;)

[Bill Totolo]

here's a situation.. shooting on the 18th floor of an appartment - 20 ft by 10 ft room. Shooting a wide shot into a L, where on one side we've got a white wall, the other a big window. No place outside the window for any lights. We have dark skinned actors standing all over the place. Any HMI sources  from inside this tiny room will spill everywhere, be too harsh and cause ugly shadows as there's no room to diffuse it. Nd down the windows - but that cut source light as the actor approaches the window. Any ideas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Before attempting to answer your question a few questions come to mind-

1) What time of day are you shooting?

2) How many hours do you want to be in there?

3) What direction does the window face/ where will the sun be?

[Greg Gross]

The problem I have with HMI's is that you are in a 20X10 room. You've got

no room to move HMI back from reflector to achieve quantity and quality of

light desired. Maybe dimmer,or scrims could be used to achieve desired light

with HMI's. Point well taken about wrinkles in diffusion material over windows,

Bill T.. I never thought about that and you've taught me something new. I sure

would like to see him solve this problem and shoot the scene there. When its all

said and done maybe its going to have to be a timed shoot. Then again if the

windows are not in the frame(not in the action,not seen) then maybe some other

diffusion material may work. You're right though Bill T., we need to know more

information about the shoot than what we have.

 

Greg Gross, Professional Photographer

Student cinematographer

[Laurent Andrieux]

I dont know if it's tipical of american DPs, but, though we use bounce board (poly) on the floor sometimes, for large close-ups, for instance, when very tiny room, we are more into bouncing from the the ceiling, in France. I feel that it's a more natural direction, from top, than from the floor... We don't know, here, if the ceiling is bright or white (or did I miss the information in the previous posts ? Anyway, the fellow doesn't showw up anymore, does he ?)

[Greg Gross]

I think that way too(bounce from ceiling)but thats due to photography

background. Many times you are in places doing still photography where

you have to bounce light and the right type of ceiling works well. I don't

think we have a good ceiling here though. Of course you can bounce off

walls also at certain angles. I think you are right laurent A., the bird has

flown off!

[PhilPowers]

I think you need to decide what time of day you are going to shoot. Then go along with your light meter and work out how much fill you are going to need if you choose to use existing light. Get hold of some Rosco 3902 silver pebble. In fact Rosco make a host of mirror products including some golds for a bit of warmth. As I said time of day is important try to make it work for you. Also check the colour and height of the ceiling while your there. This may have to be your main bounce it would help if its not green or black..

 

I have seen the entire length of a glass sided boat ND'd before it just is soo time consuming.

 

Do you intend to see the view?

 

I think you should try shooting when the sun is behind you if you can imagine that and you can then have light coming from an unseen window behind camera or to your left/right.

 

The very best of luck.

 

Positve Phil

[Jason McKelvey]

What about adding some practicles? They make torchiers now that take a standard 250W screw in bulb. Stick a cheap GE Reveal daylight balanced bulb (poor mans HMI... any hardware store), and you have a source that is matched to your daylight, and because you can put it in the corner where it belongs, pointed at the ceiling, it will illuminate at least half the room. The added benifit is that it can come into frame and no one will think twice because it belongs there. Add a table lamp with a daylight bulb for fill. My favorite 2 shoots I can remember were lit with a big window and a bounce card.

[vikash nowlakha]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Was a hell of a shoot. Oh and in reply to the additional info.. ceiling was about seven feet (no chance of that) and yes windows were in frame - that was a principal part of the problem .. also was shooting all through the day from 9 am to long after we even lost natural daylight !!! What i ended up doing was starting off with the closes with the windows open avoiding the windows in frame.. that provided enough light just from the windows all around .. added a bit of neg fill and was well set. used an opal to diffuse the light a bit more let it wrap around the actress. That was all good. Next though had to do the wides with everything in frame so had now choice but to ND down the windows (it was supposed to be a newly moved into appt. so could have no curtains or blinds) .. just filled in with some kinos. Then the final stage which was the killer - was loosing natural light so got the nd's off the windows - precariously hung a 1.2 K par with a 5no filter outside the windows and balanced ratios exactly. The quality of light was different - the ratios though were the only thing in our control - and the exterior color temperature was changing. Was a bitch to have to shoot like that ! Was really bummed out but just checked it out in the telecine and the interiors match !! There was no way to color correct temp of the lights (in terms of space) to match falling daylight. Just something one has to live with i suppose.