So how difficult is it to use 16mm?

[Freya Black]

No Phil. It doesn't.

 

Here's the breakdown on UK native, co-pro's and foreign film shot in the UK.

 

http://www.bfi.org.uk/filmtvinfo/stats/box...eatures-03.html

I got a bunch last week for nix. I'd be happy to send it to you now that I've organised some practise loading and a cheaper telecine deal for you.

 

jb

 

If Phil doesn't want it I'm intrested! :)

 

Also to the people who know people who give away short ends, please feel free to PM me with suggestions for places I could contact!

 

I am trying to get together an old Konvas kit and I'm feeling close! I could use some old film for some tests and some newer film might be nice too but I'm not fussy.

 

Looking forward to running around London with my commie cam!

 

love

 

Freya

[Phil Rhodes]

 

PS - I'm not sure it's worth shooting film if you're going to stick it through a rank 3.

[Freya Black]

PS - I'm not sure it's worth shooting film if you're going to stick it through a rank 3.

 

I knew you were going to say that but actually from what I've seen of it, it's actually okay!

I guess it comes down to the colourist and they must have some somewhat talented people, but then depending on what your project cost it might be better to just get it transferred on a shadow in the states to make sure you get great results. Might be a similar price depending on the cost of shipping too.

 

As for Bulgari/Czech, they have nice studios out there that last I checked were really cheap to hire, with sets of victorian london (ironically)! Not sure if thats changed but of course you have to have at least some budget to get your cast and crew out there. Also it's always a problem to get film across borders, especially when you live on an island.

 

love

 

Freya

[Ralph Tabith]

I would point out to all you happy, happy people that Mr. Ashley-Smith is in the UK, and therefore there are no 16mm cameras "in the local paper." There is also absolutely no availability of 16mm short ends either, nor is there any telecine available beyond the £500/hour super high end stuff. Shooting film is three to five times more expensive here and really can't be done as a hobby.

 

Phil

 

 

www.nowhere-lab.org

[Phil Rhodes]

Congratulations, you've found a telecine suite of even lower quality than a Rank 3!

 

P

[Ralph Tabith]

Congratulations, you've found a telecine suite of even lower quality than a Rank 3!

 

P

 

I wasnt referring to their telecine. The processing there, however, is fairly cheap and its a nice enterprise that they have going, so I would recommend to anyone that want to use film in the UK and are on a small budget.

[Freya Black]

I wasnt referring to their telecine. The processing there, however, is fairly cheap and its a nice enterprise that they have going, so I would recommend to anyone that want to use film in the UK and are on a small budget.

 

What's more you can forget about telecine altogether and make 16mm prints!!!

 

Nowhere has not just a contact printer but an optcal printer too! There's also a HUGE machine that processes film.

 

If you live in or near London (Kent might be close enough) and really want to

deicate yourself to some serious filmaking, then the nowhere lab is a great opportunity!

 

If you have real prints, you could just get a really low end telecine for preview and actually show the film on real film!

 

Of course I'm thinking now of more experimental silent 16mm works as opposed to the more narrative stuff we normally discuss here, but even if you don't want to make 16mm prints you could still use it for processing.

 

love

 

Freya

Edited September 6, 2007 by Freya Black

[Daniel Smith]

Unless it's abroad there's no way I'm going to be shooting 16mm unfortunatelly. (Unless of course someone else pays for it.. any offers? ;) )

 

The Panasonic SDX900 produces amazing images, and offers a great look when the midtones are pushed up.

 

I know 16mm will produce preffered results, but I just can't afford it in England.

 

I really want to shoot a feature as they are pretty much the only way of getting any money back. And a 16mm feature will put me out of pocket for the next ten years.

[Daniel Smith]

The thing is, I can't afford to shoot good quality 16mm. I can't afford a good telecine etc.

 

And if I go for a cheaper one, then I might aswell just shoot video.

 

 

But if anyone is shooting film in or around London, give me a shout, because I'd love to watch the process.

Edited September 6, 2007 by Daniel Ashley-Smith

[Serge Teulon]

Hi Daniel,

 

My advice is buy some books such as "Cinematography" by Kris Malkiewicz...I believe it is co-written by our very own David Mullen. Also, Samuelson's "Manual for Cinematographers" is a good book for various cameras and technical info.

Whilst doing so try and get some trainee work on promos, comms etc....production (as you know through your digital work) love freebies! And also try the main camera rental houses....ask to go and spend a day with them to learn about cameras and loading. They should be more than up to help you out...unless they are very busy!! You could even be cheeky and say you have your first loading job coming up!

 

If the bug bites then it becomes all about how much you really want it mate.

 

good luck

 

Cheers

[Satsuki Murashige]

The thing is, I can't afford to shoot good quality 16mm. I can't afford a good telecine etc.

 

And if I go for a cheaper one, then I might aswell just shoot video.

But if anyone is shooting film in or around London, give me a shout, because I'd love to watch the process.

Hi Daniel,

 

Kodak had a free "Stop By and Shoot Film" event at Cinegear this year: http://www.cinegearexpo.com/docs/KodakShoot.pdf

 

A friend of mine attended one of these events and said they let him shoot 50' or so of Super16 on a nice Aaton camera, then sent him a DVD of the telecined footage, all for free. If there's a similar tradeshow in your neck of the woods, you might see if Kodak or Fuji has one of these events. (I seem to remember you saying something about attending a tradeshow in London a while back).

 

Otherwise, you could buy a used Canon Scoopic M on ebay like I did, they're relatively affordable and decent quality (they're like the Pentax K1000 of the 16mm MOS world). Then shoot 100' rolls of color neg, workprint them, and project them at home on a white bedsheet (good projectors like the Kodak Pageant are dirt cheap on ebay). You can learn a lot this way and not break the bank. If you get some amazing footage out of it, have it telecined and cut it into your DP reel. Then hire yourself out to shoot other students' projects with your camera and keep learning on their dime.

[Jonathan Bowerbank]

Kodak had a free "Stop By and Shoot Film" event at Cinegear this year:

 

I went to the one here in SF a couple years ago, it was OK. There's very little that they can teach you in 3 to 4 hours, but if you've NEVER shot film before, it's a good introduction to what a 16mm camera IS. It's mostly a promotion from Kodak to show kids how easy it is to shoot film. And they didn't go into loading or changing mags at all, which was strange. You basically go out with their DP, shoot some exterior stuff, then that's it.

[Daniel Smith]

I'll have to check out that book, and also that cinegear show.

 

Thanks to everyone.

 

 

Out of interest, how does the telecine 'Rank' system work?

 

I'm presuming Rank 1 is the best (i.e. scanned at 4k or something) Rank 2 is scanned onto a HD tape, Rank 3 is scanned onto DVCPro tape?

[John Brawley]

I'll have to check out that book, and also that cinegear show.

 

Thanks to everyone.

Out of interest, how does the telecine 'Rank' system work?

 

I'm presuming Rank 1 is the best (i.e. scanned at 4k or something) Rank 2 is scanned onto a HD tape, Rank 3 is scanned onto DVCPro tape?

 

 

Hi again Dan.

 

Rank is the brand.

 

The number sort of refers to the generation of machine. So the higher the number, the more recent...to a point.

 

After the rank 3's, it went, Ursa, then Ursa Gold, then Ursa Diamond, then C-Reality. The C-Reality version was the HD and scanner version. Then there are other variants like the Turbo and Y front's and the milleniums that were mods and upgrades made by non factory companies.

 

jb

[Will Montgomery]

Then there are other variants like the Turbo and Y front's and the milleniums that were mods and upgrades made by non factory companies.

 

A Y-Front operated by a good colorist can give amazing SD results.

[Mitch Perkins]

Unless it's abroad there's no way I'm going to be shooting 16mm unfortunatelly. (Unless of course someone else pays for it.. any offers? ;) )

 

Smiley noted, but what folks usually do is go out and *raise* the money for the project. For that you need a good script...no wait, a script that'll make money.

 

Loading cameras is the least of your worries...

 

Mitch

[Phil Rhodes]

It isn't really possible to raise money for short filmmaking in the UK. Nobody has the spare cash, and if they did, the perception here is that it is a fringe artform, not a business, so under UK financial law you can't really solicit private investment. The only charitable organisation which supports any kind of filmmaking is the one we've already mentioned, and their rules are designed to limit the quality of what's produced. Otherwise, unless you're black, disabled or gay, there is no funding whatsoever for short film in the UK, unless you have rich parents.

 

Phil

 

PS: No offence intended to black, disabled or gay people; if I were a member of one of those categories, I'd be milking it for all it was worth, too.

[Robert Hughes]

unless you're black, disabled or gay...No offence intended to black, disabled or gay people...

No, just offensive to everybody else?

[Phil Rhodes]

The people I'd most like to offend are the UK film council, who instigate these ridiculous policies.

 

It is towards them that my ire is directed.

 

Phil

[Mitch Perkins]

It isn't really possible to raise money for short filmmaking in the UK.

 

OP has stated the desire to shoot a feature.

 

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:wr_rn...lient=firefox-a

 

"Financier Dean Goldberg has raised over 25 million pounds for UK features in the last 4 years, much of it for first-time filmmakers."

 

Whatever. If you need to do something you find a way to get it done.

 

Mitch

[Phil Rhodes]

I would contend that any attempt to attract private finance for any sort of filmmaking in the UK would be borderline illegal and most certainly immoral; it's not a profitmaking business and it is therefore unlawful to present it to investors as if it were. There is no UK-owned production company making proftiable, commercially-released feature films in the UK at present - not one, not a single solitary instance. If it were possible, people would be doing it, and legally, too.

 

Phil

 

PS - that course profile you cited screams of Chris Jonesism to me - if there was that much money in filmmaking, they'd be out making films, not peddling the knowledge to people for fifty quid a head.

[Robert Houllahan]

I really don't want to bust yer stones too much Phil but I get the feeling that if you were the first fish to crawl out of the water on it's way to walking upright you would have thought it impossible and there would be no civilization today as we know it, you might want to consider a move to the US and work as a evangelist Christian reverend and if you whack each of yer new sheep a few bucks (quid) pretty soon you can have that Bentley nobody in the UK can afford to buy. :lol:

 

I know allot of avant garde, indie, poor types here in the US and across the pond (yes some in the UK !) who are blissfully unaware that using small gauge film is impossible and go right on using it with clockwork machinery and even hand processing. Camera's are cheap on ebay and a fraction the cost of a new DV rig, all you have to do is want to do it, it's old simple tech and that is what is nice about it.

 

I see in the redhead section here that Jannard's new rig does not meet with proper technical specification either I am sure that there will be plenty of users will use that cam quite unaware that it's not possible, maybe some of them will even mix that super clean bayer stuff with scanned 16mm or even 8mm film and if that happens I am sure the world will suddenly disappear into the viscous gravity well black hole that will form on the spot.

 

 

Heh Heh

 

 

-Rob-

[Will Montgomery]

DV can allow people with $1000 to make a basic short with actors that will "work" for free.

 

People with $4000 or so could make a decent 16mm short for video release if they're good at negotiating, beging and waiting for available time and with actors that will "work" for (close to) free.

 

I just got 2 hours in an HD Millenium suite for less than I usually pay for Rank SD because I waited until there was available time and was very nice to the owners. It happens, you just can't count on it to happen exactly when you need it... you have to be flexible and let multiple places know what you can spend.

 

Might be very different in the UK, if so, I'm sorry.

 

Strange how my Kodak rep is very helpful even though I don't spend very much with them. Same with my Fuji rep. He just called a week ago to let me know they were taking a holiday off in case I had any orders planned. (I didn't.)

[Mitch Perkins]

There is no UK-owned production company making proftiable, commercially-released feature films in the UK at present - not one, not a single solitary instance.

 

http://www.ukfilmcouncil.org.uk/informatio...13BB&skip=0

 

"The Bureau

 

The Bureau is a London based production company harbouring producers Bertrand Faivre, Kate Ogborn, Soledad Gatti-Pascual and Matthieu de Braconier. The Bureau?s latest productions include: Far North by Asif Kapadia - premièring at the Venice Film Festival (starring Michelle Yeoh, Michelle Krusiec and Sean Bean), Glue by Alexis Dos Santos (Young Jury?s Award Rotterdam, Best Film & Audience Award BAFICI and Special Mention Viennale), The Sickie by Rupert Jones (starring Toby Jones, ARTE Award & Audience Award Angers and TCM special mention) and in pre-production Unmade Beds by Alexis Dos Santos."

 

Even if these films don't make money, the exposure can't hurt an up-and-comer.

 

And look! -

 

"August 08, 2007 - London

 

Soft, Simon Ellis?s critically acclaimed short film, commissioned by Film4 and the UK Film Council with The Bureau for Cinema Extreme, has put Ellis on the international film industry?s radar. It won Best Live Action Short at the Toronto Short Film Festival, as well as the Audience Award and a ?Special Mention? at the Hamburg International Short Film Festival."

 

This could be you! Well, not you, but it could be somebody else who hasn't given up. ~:?)

 

Mitch

[Phil Rhodes]

I think that makes my point more eloquently than I possibly could.

 

There is no such thing as being "up and coming" in this country because there is quite literally nowhere to go.

 

Phil