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Zeiss Standard T2.1 lens vs. Speed Panchro Series II or III


Tim Carroll

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Looking at the different options for 35mm lenses for a PL mount 35mm Arriflex and was wondering if anyone had experience with the Zeiss Standard T2.1 primes or the Cooke Speed Panchro Series II or Series III primes and had an opinion. It would be these Zeiss lenses, a 16mm, 24mm, 32mm, 50mm, and 85mm.

 

127677440863840000.jpg

 

And it would be these Cooke lenses with a Les Bosher PL adapter, 18mm Ser. III, 25mm Ser. III, 32mm T2.3 Ser. II,40mm Ser. II, 50mm Ser. II, and 75mm Ser. II.

 

CookeSet1.JPG

 

How do they perform as far as sharpness, color(are the Zeiss the usual cool and the Cookes the usual warm)? How far do you need to stop them down before they hit their sweet spot? And if you have used both, how do they compare to each other?

 

I realize this is a really broad question. I'm just beginning the exploration of 35mm. Any and all info would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

-Tim

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Hi Tim,

 

The lenses are quite different, the Zeiss Standards are far more modern & typically Zeiss, PL mount from the factory still used all the time.

 

The Cookes have a beautiful soft look, however as they are in their original state, focus pullers will have a hard time.

 

The Zeiss are more usable today IMO, be aware that the Zeiss 16mm & 24mm will porthhole when wide open on a digital sensor or P+S adapter, that's why they cost less than Super Speeds.

 

All of the lenses can be used wide open, however stopping down 1.5 stops you will see an improvement, if you want a very sharp image.

 

Stephen

 

Looking at the different options for 35mm lenses for a PL mount 35mm Arriflex and was wondering if anyone had experience with the Zeiss Standard T2.1 primes or the Cooke Speed Panchro Series II or Series III primes and had an opinion. It would be these Zeiss lenses, a 16mm, 24mm, 32mm, 50mm, and 85mm.

 

127677440863840000.jpg

 

 

 

And it would be these Cooke lenses with a Les Bosher PL adapter, 18mm Ser. III, 25mm Ser. III, 32mm T2.3 Ser. II,40mm Ser. II, 50mm Ser. II, and 75mm Ser. II.

 

CookeSet1.JPG

 

How do they perform as far as sharpness, color(are the Zeiss the usual cool and the Cookes the usual warm)? How far do you need to stop them down before they hit their sweet spot? And if you have used both, how do they compare to each other?

 

I realize this is a really broad question. I'm just beginning the exploration of 35mm. Any and all info would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

-Tim

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The Zeiss T2.1s actually do not have that razor sharp Zeiss look with a fast focus fall-off of the Ultra Primes and Master Primes. Instead they go a bit more in direction of Cooke look. But they are still plenty sharp, expecially if closed down. I recently saw an architectural shot comparison test and the Zeiss 14mm Distagon looked better than the equivalent Cooke S4.

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Thanks Stephen and Max.

 

be aware that the Zeiss 16mm & 24mm will porthhole when wide open on a digital sensor or P+S adapter, that's why they cost less than Super Speeds.

 

Stephen, I plan to use these lenses on an Arriflex 35mm camera, shooting 1.85, (in the academy frame, not full frame). Will I still run in to the porthole (is that the same as vignetting by the way?) problem when shooting with them wide open?

 

Thanks,

-Tim

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Thanks Stephen and Max.

Stephen, I plan to use these lenses on an Arriflex 35mm camera, shooting 1.85, (in the academy frame, not full frame). Will I still run in to the porthole (is that the same as vignetting by the way?) problem when shooting with them wide open?

 

Thanks,

-Tim

 

Hi Tim,

 

No problem whatsoever shooting on 35mm film. Portholing looks like vignetting, but the cause is different, when you stop down it goes away, with vignetting it will get worse!

 

Film does not care the angle that light hits it, a digital sensor does! I guess the Cookes may well have the same issue, but I have never tested them on a digital sensor.

 

Stephen

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 10 months later...
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Okay, it is now about a year later, I have slowly put together a nice set of Speed Panchro lenses, one at a time. The set consists of the 18mm Ser III, the 25mm Ser III, the 32mm Ser II, the 40mm Ser II, the 50mm Ser II, and the 75mm Ser II. I had Guy at ZGC overhaul them all and have shot some test footage with all of them. They look good.

 

I had the chance to put them up on a lens projector today, and look at them next to a set of Zeiss Standard Speed Primes (the T2.1 versions) and a set of Zeiss Master Primes, and a set of Cooke S4 lenses. They stacked up really nicely with the Zeiss Standard Speed Primes, and have very similar characteristics. I was really surprised how sharp the Speed Panchros were, even wide open.

 

Naturally the Cooke S4 lenses blew away the Speed Panchros, and the Master Primes were unbelievable. Would love to have a set of those babies.

 

It was really great having the chance to look at the lenses with a lens projector. Would love to have a projector for my shop.

 

Best,

-Tim

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  • 9 years later...
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The issue Stephen is talking about here with the wide Standard Speeds is not vignetting, but uneven illumination caused by the angle that the light hits a sensor. Most older lenses are not telecentric, and the wider angle focal lengths will often have some portholing effect on digital cameras, but unless you're shooting an evenly lit white wall or the like it's often not noticeable. Stopping down makes a lens more telecentric, so the portholing is reduced.

 

I should add that many older lenses will vignette, in the sense that they get a little darker towards the edges, due to the optical design (a simple lens will naturally condense more light in the centre than at the edges so even illumination needs to be designed into the lens), but this is different to what Stephen is talking about in this thread, which is to do with telecentricity.

 

I don't know what Garret Brown was joking about in that other thread, I haven't noticed the 24mm Zeiss Standard Speed having particularly noticeable vignetting issues, but maybe Kubrick with his keen eye had noticed it was worst on the 24mm?

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