soft light on super low budget

[Josh Bass]

Soft light is hard to do, in my experience, with a low budget (which means, for all intents and purposes, no budget, in this thread). Here are the things I so far have access too, and why they're okay, but not great, for soft light in a narrative storytelling context (as opposed to interview setups or something).

 

1. Reflectors/bounced light. You take your fixture, say a fresnel, and bounce it off some white foamcore, a bedsheet, whatever. Generally, on my silly personal no budget movies, I'm shooting in tiny places, and setting up a reflector large enough to create a soft light is tough, since I can't control the spill (no c-stands and 2x4 solids available, and probably not enough room for them if they were), and therefore get a flat look.

 

2. Chimera/softbox. I have a 2x3 foot box, and that's only soft when the subject is right nearby. What about for your wider shots?

 

3. hard light through diffusion panel. Mostly, same reasons as #1.

 

4. Chinese lanterns. I've had the best luck with these, as far as ease of use and controllability (sure, that's a word), but they're still kinda difficult. The most you can use in the sockets I have access to (bought from Home Depot, assembled myself) is a 300 watt household bulb, and it's probably best to use those in the bigger lanterns (2-3 foot diameter, I'd guess). Then you have this giant ball that's hard to keep out of the shot, sometimes. Also, not that much output unless you're real close. Also, super orange-ish light. You can say "but the make photofloods that are exactly 3200k, etc." Yes, but aren't those more expensive, with a life of like 6 hours?

 

5. Umbrellas. Decent for interviews or something with a very tight shot, kinda the same space and controllability problems for wider shots, in my opinion.

 

Anyway, I think that's everything I've tried so far. So, pros, amateurs, whoever, throw some knowledge at me. Blow my mind. Anything you know of that I don't, for getting a soft light that doesn't spill everywhere? I don't mean flat light, something with more directinality to it that allows for modelling of the subject.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I just scored four enormous suspended ceiling lighting panels, as used in commercial premises. Large but fairly flat - no more than 4" deep, but I will need to buy stands for them.

 

Phil

[Josh Bass]

Yeah, that was one thing I forgot to mention. I bought some cheap "shop lights" at Home Depot as well, just 'cause I thought they might be useful. I've used 'em once or twice for little things, like enhancing or simlulating the light from a computer monitor (tiny fixtures here. . .maybe ten inches long). I've thought about bigger ones, but I've bought so much stuff that I'm loathe to buy more without a good reason.

 

I'm no good at engineering stuff, that is, adapting this and that to fit so and so. I have a few ghetto methods for rigging things up, but rigging a stand for a commercial flourescent fixture feels beyond me. I guess you could control those to some degree by blackwrapping the crap out of it (in essence, creating barn doors--they'd have to be really long, though, to have much of an effect, no?).

[dinko]

Have you ever tried using, or making some eggcrates?

[Bob Hayes]

It sounds like you are on the right track and asking the right questions. Bouncing light into foam core is an easy way to create soft light. It is tough to cut large sources without 4x4 flags and c-stands. As I have mentioned before you can make most of your grip/electric gear from stuff you find at a hardware store but there is no substitute for a couple of good c-stands. You might look into buying a couple of used ones.

 

Bob

[Josh Bass]

I've used the grid that fits a mole richardson 2k ziplight. Do those really make that much difference, the eggcrates? Seems like manufacturers try to make you think it does, but I don't see how it could, except for very little.

 

Phil, now that I think about it, flos seem like a good idea. There are several problems, though. How do you power them? Don't you need a ballast? Aren't those pricey? Aren't there flicker issues with commercial ballasts (as opposed to kino flo ones)? As I said, I'm no engineer. This grip showed me how to build a socket and plug for the chinese lanterns, and that's the only wiring stuff I've done. I guess if the procedure was real simple, and not dangerous, I could do something, if the flos required it.

 

Where'd you score those ones you got?

[Bob Hayes]

I have been tempted to build my own Kino?s. Higher quality electronic ballasts are available at stores that specialize in fluorescence. Back doors can be made with black corrugated plastic. Once they are all built you are going to have to put em on a c-stand. Which brings me back to the need to buy c-stands.

[Bob Hayes]

OOOps! I meant barn doors not back doors.

[dinko]

Eggcrates really make the diffrence, or at least to me they did.

Whenever I have my softlights little above the subject, they work wonderfull.

It is the angle of the eggcrates that provides you with more or less control over the spill; ofcourse more control you have more light you will lose.

 

For the kinoflo part, if you want to do it will cost you around $300 for all the parts and the ballast.

Here is a link to one of the ballast I tested, that worked perfect:

http://www.hellolights.com/3laaromo4lvb.html

 

If you want my specs from testing the ballast I can post it or mail it to you.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> How do you power them?

 

Mains.

 

> Don't you need a ballast?

 

Yes.

 

> Aren't those pricey?

 

No. The world needs hundreds of thousands of them. Iron ballasts, good for work on video or at flicker safe film speeds, are a few units of currency apiece, or can often be salvaged. You also need a starter - and here I'll shut up as the arrangement is different in the UK where 240V mains makes fluorescent drivers easier, and different to those in the US.

 

> Aren't there flicker issues with commercial ballasts

 

On some types. Basic iron ballasts, with which you need a starter, will always flicker. Many other types advertised as "electronic" also flicker, but it's hard to tell - some of them do and some don't. Dimmable ballasts, which are the most expensive type, often don't, but again that's not certain. Although that aquarium ballast specifically states no flicker, I'd personally want to confirm the actual frequency of operation before using it on critical projects. No visible flicker could still be low enough frequency to cause problems on film, although I would expect it to be OK.

 

All low-voltage, battery powered an in-car, boating or other portable application ballasts will almost certainly be flicker free.

 

> (as opposed to kino flo ones)?

 

There's nothing tremendously clever about kino ballasts. If you can find a non-flickering, dimmable commercial ballast, that's essentially the same thing, especially if you buy an 80W ballast and put a 60W tube on it (for more light, but shorter life.) Kino tubes are built to take this for longer.

 

Most of the very high output compact fluorescent ballasts also don't flicker and work in a similar way. It is possible to build good flicker-free ballasts with a little patience and some basic electronics knowledge, but I hesitate to post anything on that as there's mains electricity safety issues, and badly-would inductors can easily start fires.

 

Phil

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Oh, and:

 

> Where'd you score those ones you got?

 

Local shopping unit being refitted. Get lucky, basically, and be willing to pick your way through the mud of a building site to ask. They are iron ballasts and will flicker. Might build them better ballasts.

 

Phil

[Alvin Pingol]

Mr. Rhodes... I remember that DIY softlight you posted about a little while ago. How's that working out for you? Use it much? I'm planning on building a similar unit and was wondering whether I would get much use out of it, or if it would be spending most of its time taking up space in a closet.

[Josh Bass]

Argggh. This is starting to sound expensive. I guess I was hoping there was some magical low budget solution I hadn't thought of. I forgot to mention I have some scrap duvetyne from a rental house (some large scraps, that is). Those might make good skirts for the lanterns or something.

 

And while I'm here. . .if I was to have a scene that could be lit by a large, soft source and didn't need much control, do I remember reading, correctly, on this forum, that shower curtains make good diffusion, whereas bed sheets make better bounce/reflectors?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

40W cold-cathode discharge light panel:

 

 

In operation:

 

 

The twelve individual tubes and six Royer oscillators are visible through the diffusion:

 

 

Controls and switchgear:

 

 

The device is 12.5x12.5" square and 1" thick not including the tubular mounting cradle. I have found it to be a useful alternative to on-camera lighting where a 50W halogen dichroic can be very harsh, and it is more efficient than any tungsten halogen lamp by about twice. Takes about a minute to warm up in cold conditions. Instant restrike. The device is dimmable down to about 10% by varying the input; I intend to build this in. Doing so will also allow me to regulate output against battery voltage.

 

Phil

[Dan Salzmann]

Phil,

This rig looks great! Where can I get one or plans tro build one?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Well, I have parts to build another. Hadn't really considered the possibility of anyone else wanting one! The idea is that with several you can lock them together to make a larger unit.

 

There's no special trick to it, it's just a load of cold cathode tubes in a tray made of polycarbonate and aluminium angle, so I'm not really sure plans are much help.

 

Phil

[Josh Bass]

Yeah, that chick's totally hot. Looks high maintainance, though.

[Michael Nash]

And while I'm here. . .if I was to have a scene that could be lit by a large, soft source and didn't need much control, do I remember reading, correctly, on this forum, that shower curtains make good diffusion, whereas bed sheets make better bounce/reflectors?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pretty much. It's only because most shower curtain material (other than opaque) transmits more light than bedsheets do. Fabric like bedsheets and bleached muslin can be used either way, it's just that they tend to reflect more light than they transmit.

 

But keep in mind that the density of the material is also what gives the light its soft quality. If it's too sheer or translucent you won't get the softness from it.

 

If you're going to make a large DIY diffusion frame, you may want to have a couple different densities of material on hand. A normally equipped grip cart will have 4x4' frames made up of at least three different densities of diffusion, like Opal Frost, 250, and 216.

[Alvin Pingol]

@ Phil:

 

Sexy rig! You wouldn't happen to know the CRI for those cathode tubes, would you?

 

Oh, and what white balance was your camera set to when you took those pics? The cold cathode tubes look to be a bit... well... cold! :P

[Jason McKelvey]

Very low budget?... A 150 to 200 thread count top sheet with 4 clip light aluminum scoops with 300 watt bulbs about 6 to 8 inches apart (set back at the right distance) is a nice soft light... and if you can keep your subject off the background, the fall off is pretty good. I got this idea after watching "The Others" DVD extra features where they showed a 4x4 frame set right on the floor with a fay light behind it. Cost you about $50.

 

Also, try getting an off-white sheet... like a taup or light salmon to warm up the light.

 

Jason

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> You wouldn't happen to know the CRI for those cathode tubes, would you?

 

No, but next time I'm at Filmlight I'm going to try and get them characterised. Having looked at typical cold cathode tubes with a spectroscope I'm not hoping for much, but they're certainly triphosphor and could potentially be as good as decent fluorescents. They're used to backlight LCDs all the time, although I don't know if they then just match the LCD filters to the output of the tubes.

 

They're very cyan. The camera was balanced for the tungsten room lighting, that being 50W MR16s, so probably a pretty reasonable 3200K tungsten. The tubes are much closer to daylight with a lot of cyan. I did some stills tests but I can't find them...

 

Phil

[DavidSloan]

do shower curtians hold up next to hot instruments. i.e., is there a risk of them melting?

 

Also, do they cast a color?

 

Thanks. :ph34r:

[Alvin Pingol]

Thanks for the reply, Phil.

 

>>do shower curtians hold up next to hot instruments. i.e., is there a risk of them

>>melting?

 

Of course there is! There is a risk for anything melting/burning if you put it next to a hot instrument. However, things designed to withstand being put next to a hot light will just take a little more effort to melt.

 

Shower curtains, however, most likely weren't designed to have massive heat sources next to them, and will melt quickly since they are made up of mostly soft plastic.

 

 

>>Also, do they cast a color?

 

If they're colored. ;) If you have a "white" shower curtain, shine a flashlight through one side and examine the output on the reverse. That way you will be able to see if anything tints on its way through the material...

[Riku Naskali]

do shower curtians hold up next to hot instruments. i.e., is there a risk of them

melting?

A shower curtain will most propably melt if put too close to the fixture. But anyways, soft lights are best used close to talent.

 

If they're colored.  ;)  If you have a "white" shower curtain, shine a flashlight through one side and examine the output on the reverse. That way you will be able to see if anything tints on its way through the material...

I'm really pissed because every freakin' shower curtain here in Finland tends to have dolphins or other fish printed on it. I need some cheap diffusion material, not artsy shower stuff :P

[Bob Hayes]

An easy, inexpensive, and controllable light is a book light. Take a 4x8 foam core score it down the width and fold it so you have 2 4x4 sides that open like a book. Open the ?book? so it is 455 degrees and bounce your light into the open fold. The sides act as cutters. Clip it to a stand or put it on a table if you need to get some height. Tape diffusion between the open sides and trap the bounced light inside to make it super soft.