Women in film industry.

[Lars Zemskih]

I think there should be more women directors.

[Jonathan Bowerbank]

Dude, an Aaton weighs what? Women lug around fidgety 3 and 4 year olds all day long, don't tell me they aren't strong enough to set up or hand hold a camera. My Knovas can be held with one hand. You're lumping all women together...

 

I wasn't trying to say ALL women can't operate the heavier cameras. But there certainly is a boom in female cinematographers/operators (not ACs or grips) which is very refreshing. I'm sure we could give just as much credit to the times we're in. :)

[Adam Thompson]

I think there should be more women directors.

 

Yeah that'd be so cool. I can't get enough of those great romantic comedies and experimental B.S. movies. I'm gelling up just thinking about it! <_<

 

 

Really- I think there should be more male directors with less feminine traits.

[David Mullen ASC]

Rather than get sucked into pointless debates about women with Adam on a cinematography forum, I've decided to add him to my Ignore User list, since he seems determined to present these inappropriate pseudo-Rush Limbaugh style of comments here. At least I won't have to see them anymore -- now he can say whatever he wants.

[Tim Tyler]

...now he can say whatever he wants.

 

He can in 30 days. I just suspended his account's ability to post until then.

[Michael Lehnert]

You know, I was just about to post one of my signature über-long posts in which I elaborated on some work I recently did re. women in the workforce and how unbelievably difficult and shockingly common it is for women to be still confronted with underlying, unconscious sexism or plain straight-out bio-essentialist misogyny ? yes, still today in our time after centuries of those funny egg-headed people pondering about "Enlightenment" and many women paying very high personal prices just to exist and try to do in their life what they actually want to do and move beyond (self-)inflicted roles and social conditioning (the same counts for men, who ? as many posters here show ? would need to move beyond their own social conditioning and fatally flawed way of thinking. If they only knew...) and achieve something sublime with their lives (which is actually what living one's live should be all about ? and cinematography is such a good example to do that...) despite that they maybe can't actually envision themselves doing that because of a lack of role model--- after all, women are just not made for some jobs, isn't it?

(a couple of decades ago, some here would happily discuss that women's minds are just not made for going to university, lead a company, elect a president, wooopsy, even be a president or chancellor...)

 

 

But much to my personal shame, I deleted that post before posting it because

a) those who would understand the post would have know about this beforehand, so wouldn't learn anything from it.

B) those who don't grasp the problem for personal, societal or contextual reasons would just rant on and challenge me on from their own horizon's scope and breath... and frankly

c) I can't be bothered to engage with some people on a debate about this topic in this framework (forum) and via this means of communciation (through the "cloud") because it is somewhat doomed to descend into a waste-time because no-one of those who should reconsider would do so. Jermaine Jackson once said that "you can't reason with someone who is beyond reason", and whenever it comes to ideological ways of thinking (i.e. to have one's thoughts follow specific ideas about something that might be so for the one, but can easily be regarded from different perspective and thus lead to a completely different take about who the world actually looks ? it's a bit like changing the focal length on your vario lens.. I guess too many people have shot with narrow-angle primes here for too long), this quote brings the problem to the point.

 

To be honest, having recently seen an article from a colleague about a similar topic published in a high-reputation German newspaper that showcased the ugly underbelly of society when the anonymous online edition feedbacks were published (you would think you were in 1930s Germany again, where women were meant to breed and cook when you read through those), I was originally pleased by the intelligent and reflective posts that came in at the beginning. Of course, as David predicted, it all went pear-shaped from post #8 onwards and descended into frightening stuff, to be quite honest again, that would make me think twice about engaging with some people on a professional level (after all, you can be the best AC, if you don't fit into the team or are socially problematic, I would pick someone less qualified all the time; but hey, that statement makes me sound like a pussyboy, valuing social stuff and that, would't it?)

 

Women not strong enough to do gear? Can't cope with "military conditions" (since when is filmmaking a military operation, apart from the fact that you will find more women in 101 Airborn in Iraq than on any set Tom Lowe has been on)? Let them eat cake and shoot with Aatons (a sort of ladybird camera anyhow from those French intellectuals that constantly breaks down, as our multitalent from Texas once claimed, while Arri 535 and 16s with register pins are for men, yeah!)? Why not just let women shoot on Super 8, weddings, preferably? After all, women can't load a magazine, they are cartridge-based humans! And women only doing romantic stuff or experimental things where - the Gods forbid - one would even have to think about what is going-on on the screen for a few seconds? We don't wanna think! We just want Resident Evil, but please without all the dialogue, that really distracts! I wonder what cinematic education some people here have? Apparently, Barbara Kopple or Kathryn Bigelow are not most-researched on IMDB by some here (maybe they are too young to know these directors?)

And then any post by Adam Thomson?! Holy... what is this all about? It's not in a women's nature to do certain roles ? you don't need a PhD in Sociology anymore to figure out that these roles have been designed by society in the first place?

 

Anyway, I am probably too affeminate for too many (based on this post's content) to talk 'movies' with the males who cold-forged their Machoflex 42 pounders all by themselves, like Siegfried! I am just glad that women will most likely make it even in the film industry despite some men. At least that critical momentum has gained enough traction not to get derailed. But based on this thread, it will as difficult as in any other industry.

I am off to the 16mm forum, then, talking women's stuff like co-planar movements - how disappointing: no registration pin that protrudes deeply to keep things steady as they rock.

Good night, and good luck!

[Guest]

"You know, I was just about to post one of my signature über-long posts"

 

That was your example of a "short" post????? :blink:

 

R,

[David Mullen ASC]

After these sorts of debates wind down, I'm always reminded of the aftermath of the zoot suit riot in "1941" where the exhausted ballroom announcer sits among the wreckage and thanks everyone for attending and suggests "maybe we can get togther again next week and stage a race riot..."

[Michael Lehnert]

Yeah, I know... Sorry, I went a bit overboard with that post of mine... :mellow:

 

What do they tell you here in Europe: "Don't drive while angry". Well, don't post either. Unfortunaltely, nobody told me :rolleyes: .

 

It just hit a raw nerve at a time where I just came back from a meeting where I had to hear from highly qualified female friends and colleagues about their everyday work problems that frankly would make most people shudder - it shocked me; and I already get confronted with pretty shocking stuff through my work on a daily basis. Social conditions in the industrial world are still quite abyssal, no need (but nevertheless necessary) to look to "third world countries" to find sex- and gender-based discrimination.

[Michael Lehnert]

After these sorts of debates wind down, I'm always reminded of the aftermath of the zoot suit riot in "1941" where the exhausted ballroom announcer sits among the wreckage and thanks everyone for attending and suggests "maybe we can get togther again next week and stage a race riot..."

 

Excellent idea! See you all next week, then! B)

[Edgar Dubrovskiy]

Thanks a lot for your posts. It becomes more or less clear now. On crew side.

 

But how would you comment on a complete lack of any famous (more important successful and good) female-directors. All people were saying was "Leni Riefenstahl" (now we tend to mention a good daughter and (so-so) director Sofia a bit more). So why is it we don't have any mainstream females shouting "action" and "cut"? Is it something to do with studios and/or big bosses. Or is it much more complicated?

[Andy_Alderslade]

Has anoyone noticed that someone tends to go a little nuts here approximately every three months.

 

But how would you comment on a complete lack of any famous (more important successful and good) female-directors. All people were saying was "Leni Riefenstahl" (now we tend to mention a good daughter and (so-so) director Sofia a bit more). So why is it we don't have any mainstream females shouting "action" and "cut"? Is it something to do with studios and/or big bosses. Or is it much more complicated?

 

The reason there are so few big names or big budget female directors is probably the same reason there are so few female CEOs or politicians, that laws against descrimation and priniciples of total social equality are so new that it takes several decades for individuals to trickle through to the top.

 

There are plenty of excellent woman directors working out there, just few have had a chance to helm big budget features.

[John Sprung]

.......I just gotta figure out a rhyme for Cinematography.com.....

OK -- Here ya go:

 

http://rhyme.poetry.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Word=c...g2=l&cbr=pc

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Jesse Cairnie]

I think its all a numbers game.. how many women in your entire life have you ever chatted with about film? How many black people?

 

Its the same in business.. how many failed attempts does there need to be to have 1 CEO of a major company? its like a lottery shoot, a million to one..

 

the more women that become business majors the more likely there is to be a female CEO.. same as in film.. if more and more women do it.. more and more will become successful..

 

I dont think there is any particular reason why.. It just isnt inherently a part of their genetic make up (a contradictory statement?).. and when it is.. WOW.. nothing but genius comes from them..

 

Film is a white male dominated field because it appeals to "us" more.. just as in business, rock music, golf, bowling, hockey, etc..

[Tim Tyler]

Film is a white male dominated field because ...

 

Is that so? Email me the stats that prove that and I'll re-open this thread.

[Brad Grimmett]

First of all, Tim, I'm sorry to reopen this thread (if only for a moment), but I wanted to respond to the question below. Hopefully I'm not overstepping my moderating boundaries.

So why is it we don't have any mainstream females shouting "action" and "cut"?

We have quite a few, although not as many as there are men.

Penelope Spheeris

Amy Heckerling

Penny Marshall

Mira Nair

Mimi Leder

Jane Campion

Kathryn Bigelow

Tamara Jenkins

Nora Ephron

Kimberly Pierce

Julie Taymor

Niki Caro

Catherine Hardwicke

Sofia Coppola

Those are a few. I know I'm missing many more. These women I've listed have made all kinds of films, and their work speaks for itself.

According to Wikipedia, "Alice Guy-Blaché made the very first feature film La fée aux choux in 1896."

So women directors aren't as uncommon as many people think.