laurent A. are you around?

Greg Gross · October 10, 2004

Hello laurent A. if you are on forum,

Do you think there's any possibility of grauduating cinematographer in U.K.

finding work in France?

Dan Salzmann · October 11, 2004

Hello,

I am an American DP that has been based in Paris for 12 years so I feel qualified to answer this question with some remarks that I hope are valid:

1) Any cinematographer anywhere in the world is evaluated by their showreel and their personality.

2) The cinema has it's own language (slang). Unless the cinematographer is very, very "hot", trendy, whatever you want to call it, they will be required to speak French as well as "cinema" French. Even in the US, certain terms change from coast to coast.

3) I don't want to be discouraging but the French are not big chance takers and there are many cinematographers of all levels here.

4) In terms of music videos (or pop promos to many in the UK), there is much more production happening in London. Commercials are much more cutting edge in the UK as well. Music videos and commercials are what young DP's cut their teeth on.

Phil Rhodes · October 11, 2004

Hi,

You will find very few young DPs doing decent music videos in London. There's a lot of PD-150 stuff going around, but I don't think that's what you mean. They're incredibly hard to get, simply because there's so little going on that the older and more experienced guys are doing them just to be working.

Phil

Greg Gross · October 12, 2004

Thanks gentlemen for your posts. I know nothing about the business

in France. I feel more informed about it now.

Dan Salzmann · October 12, 2004

What Phil says is no doubt true but it has been my experience that the UK is slightly less of a "closed shop".

Also the majority of French groups or singers that have any chance of getting a music video shown play music that is far inferior to that in the UK. Lots of really creepy old men that bawl alot of "poetic" faff with crap arrangements. Next to the French crew, Rod Stewart is cutting edge. In France this is rounded off with lots of "gorgeous" babes that can't sing and have awful backing tracks. Often the above creepy old men write the songs and discover the above mentioned "gorgeous" babes, ahem.

There is good French music (Air, for example) which is ignored in France UNTIL it is discovered in the UK and the US before being accepted.

Working on crap is work, but..........

Laurent Andrieux · October 23, 2004

Hello Greg !

Sorry I didn't notice you created this topic or were either looking for me, since I didn't comme much atround here these last weeks, as we were "back to school", and I also had problems with my DSL in the meantime...

Anyways, you've already had much pertinent answers here. You can always mail me if you need.

I must say that I left Paris and working there for 5 years now, since I teach, and things change pretty fast. Things have become more and more difficult. It began with "DP castings" here, that we didn't have before, even for ACs...

I guess Dan is more on the trend and that his answer is more valuable that what I could say about it.

The only point I can add is about learning in UK and coming here for work. Dan's right about the major point of language. The only thing I can add is that English schools are well considered here, that shouldn't be a problem in terms of well considered background. Another point is that speaking english here is a plus, and a lot of people are even impressed by english speaking people - american and english - It may sound silly but it's true. I guess Dan wouldn't say being american didn't help him to work here, though speaking french is necessary.

Who is Laura ? what's her background ?

How did you get along with your shooting last month then ?

Looking forward to reading you,

regards,

Laurent

Laurent Andrieux · October 23, 2004

Since I've been reading the topic "want to be a trainee" I know who Laura is, by now. Sad that she thinks the topic has derivated, as Phil and other people were talking the same subject, in fact, it's true.

(I'm not talking about what some kids made it derivate afterwards, too bad..)

I wonder what Morgan looks like. Sounds like she's very clever, but I wouldn't be estonished if she were handsome as well... Please, send us a photo ! :)

If she's both intelligent and handsome, then I understand that she's getting along that well, - not everybody has this luck - and that M. Prieto wanted her. Sad she didn't clue she should have answered the phone at once and meet them in the middle of the night, she would have get the job!

She says "You have to play the game". What game are you exactly talking about, Morgan ?

If Laura would also send us a picture, then we could more precisly evaluate her chances compared to her... :lol:

As for her first question, The thing is to meet as many people as you can. People's talking about cold calls, sending cv's etc, in France we also do another thing : go to rental houses, say hello to every one, make yourself known, meet AC's. Propose them to give a hand for camera tests, they will teach you a lot at the same time, and one day, if they are happy with you and need someone, they can hire you as a trainee. I don't know how it goes in UK. in France, so many people did that for so many years that the rentals began to consider this as a trainee job, make waiting lists, and would only allow educated people in the last years I was in Paris. May be in UK it's not like that, so it can be a great way for meeting people. DPs and cameramen often come there as well... And you can learn a lot about camera, lenses, filters, grip and lighting technology as well, if you get in good terms with the house technicians also.

It's also a good way to know "what's going on"

Not going thru a school is ok if you want to learn another way, but you have to learn, anywise. That's a good alternative way. You could even get a job at the rental house. I personnaly had a second assistant who worked like this before. May be the best one I ever had.

I sort of continue here the topic that was screwed up in "want to be a trainee" : there is such a sad situation in England... Some people get along with it, other people don't, but please any advised person should rekon the situation is so sad there, that people's talking about leaving England for another country, or live there and work abroad. shoulde I figure out that David Mullen is english native and that he moved to US ? The fact that english people began to work as freelance, not employed anymore, is typical, and what a pity ! I met some english ACs, great professionnals, working with Ken Loach and so, desperate for work... It truly think it's a sad story... I wonder how it went on in Italy a few years before... Hope it doesn't become this way in France too, though I know it's getting worse and worse... This is one of the major reasons I quitted, myself. As for a Plan B, as someone said, well, you know I teach by now.

I would like to thank Phill and other english people for what they gave us in this topic, no bullshit, human stuff. Thank you guys, take care ! Good luck, you too, Laura and Morgan !

I'll end this with a funny story. May be you've heard of him. one of our french comics, Coluche. He was playing the first role in "Tchao Pantin", directed by Claude Berri - one of our most famous producers - and cinematographed by Bruno Nuytten - one of our most talented DP. For those who don't know him, he was very talented, but he was not handsome at all ! When he got his Cesar for Tchao Pantin, he said : "I've been told you'd have to go in bed for making it in the show business... I tried... It didn't work".

Regards.

Phil Rhodes · October 24, 2004

Hi,

I think you have to take a number and wait just to sit on the doorstep of most rental places in London. Hanging around like that is just going to get you on people's bad sides. Nobody seems to understand - when the market is this saturated, people underfoot is NOT helpful.

Phil

Greg Gross · October 24, 2004

Hello laurent A,

Welcome back to forum!! I guess you were busy with your film students?

Well by now after reading your post,I guess you know who laura is. Only

trouble is she has not returned to forum that I know of. I asked her to e-mail

me but she did not. Thanks to you and Phil I now understand the situation in

U.K. and in France,you guys certainly need to protect your interests(turf). I

was completely stupid about the industry in the U.K. and in France. Thank you

so much for your post and detailed answer. I have always wanted to learn french

but never had the opportunity, I wanted to speak french to the ladies! My shoot

went very well,director was not so bad to work with,I had the advantage as he

did not know photography. I'm pleased with things and that I could give him the look he wanted. When I'm permitted to post some shots I will. In my free time I

made a personal film of a chinese man performimg Ti Chi on the beach. Sea

gulls flying at the camera, they almost look like they are going to fly right through

the camera and hit me. Beautiful seascape in background and a kayaker. I have

it on my hard drive and I've started to edit it. The cast knew I was a professional

photographer and they drove me nuts about taking photos of them in off time. I

enjoyed very much though doing this for them. You know laurent A. when the

shooting was all over and I was leaving for home, I was a little sad. I was sort of

sentimental driving home. Stand-by,Roll Audio,Roll Camera,Action.

Only if you've been there do you know the feeling. Greg

Greg Gross · October 24, 2004

Laurent A.,

Remember when I said that I felt a little sad when the shooting was over?

I always liked that French film-Truffauts, "Day For Night". Everytime I see

that film,I'm always sad when they are done shooting and everyone leaves

for home. I love the color saturation in this film,framing,the story. Do you

have any beautiful,gorgeous female DP's in France? I wonder if there are any

beautiful,gorgeous female DP's in USA?Have you seen the shots that Phil

posted recently on forum? Great shots,examples of type of filtration. I think

they're under all those posts recently about filters. Misty,contrasty, sun light

through trees and reaching to forest floor. You guys are lucky, you have all

those wonderful old trees in U.K. and France,wonderful old forests. Great for

another sequel to "Holloween". Phil does nice work. If I had a few films under

by belt and was known a little. I would like to shoot a wonderful love story,done

so there would not be a dry eye in the house. The film "The Note Book" based

on the novel started me thinking about this. Nick Cassavettes did such a great

job with that film,its just simply so beautiful. The story just keeps moving it

never stalls and it makes you feel it. I hope you are having a good school year

with your students! Just think laurent A. sombody there in class is going to be

famous some day,and they don't know it!

Greg

Laurent Andrieux · October 24, 2004

Hi,

I think you have to take a number and wait just to sit on the doorstep of most rental places in London. Hanging around like that is just going to get you on people's bad sides. Nobody seems to understand - when the market is this saturated, people underfoot is NOT helpful.

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if that's a way it has become... too bad !

Laurent Andrieux · October 25, 2004

Greg,

I don't know if we shouldn't have this kind of conversations in private e-mails. It might interest other people, but if someone's getting fade up with us, please let us know.

Of course I know what you mean about getting a bit sad after the shooting. May be you feel like that especially 'cause it was your firt one as a DP...

The thing is I've always considered shooting as a job, even though I was very much involved into it etc, I always was happy to "go back home". Another point is that the people you work with or meet, assistants, grips, gaffers, etc. keep on being friends or collegues afterwards so you keep the best of it somehow.

I mostly worked as an assistant, with different dps, but the story was more about working with them on different projects than working on a special project, you see what I mean ?

About french female dps : I don't know all of them but they mostly are more like "man looking like" than attractive...

The handsome girls work as assistant, not dps...

I'll tell you a story, I just can't give the names, it's not about girls or women, it's a bout becoming a dp when you are a assistant.

There is a very famous dp here in France (may be retired now, or soon will be.). He used to do 1 to 3 feature lengths a year, a long a famous career. Very famous. His assistants used to work with him for years and when they thought they could at one point become a cameraman, they used to tell him, that they wanted to operate for the next film, not ACing anymore. He used to answer : look, I don't need any cameraman, I need an assistant. You're the best I know. If you are free, you'll do the film with me. If you're not free as an assistant, I'll just have to find another one...

Thanks for your good wishes,

Regards