Why is this legal?

[Guest]

"Women are breaking through more and more every day into the directors chair, none of them need a gov't support program, they have talent and drive. Which is far more effective than any gov't hiring scheme."

 

That's the whole point and you are missing it! Creating opportunities (not quotes, which again no one is making quotas, you are assuming again) allows for people to advance and then that breakdown stereotypes. Breaking down steeotypes is what will get rid of discrimination once and for all. The government sees the need to make it feasible for more minorities who are already working toward it to make it. Otherwise look at how few are able to.

 

People who don't face racism, can't possibly understand it, that's why you are so pigheaded about it. [/b] Some people will give you a fair chance at a job, but someone won't. It's as hard for someone being discriminated against to get 3 as someone not to get 6. Deny it all you want, but saying just work harder, is stupid on your part. White culture has pushed minorities and kept minorities down to their low social status, so it is up to white culture to aid in getting them back up to par. Not do it for them, but AID.

 

Well you're typing a lot of over reactionary hogwash. I say women are getting ahead in the film industry and you say I am missing the point? My point, that you clearly missed, is that people like Dawn Steel made it on their own they created their own opportunities.

 

And now I'm also pigheaded, blah blah blah....this is all running together and around in circles. Michele, just go your own way and I'll go mine, I've heard these same tired arguments 1000 times before. Yawn. Thanks.

 

R,

[Michele Peterson]

If helping people who are economically disadvantaged is acceptable, as some have mentioned on here, why is it not ok to recognize and help those you are social disadvantaged? I'm more than willing to speak up for those that these programs are here to help.

 

None of these programs are instituting quotas! They offer training to people who don't have as much training available to them. You aren't being fired from a job you have to put a minority in your place, so stop acting like you are being so wronged. There are enough jobs to go around, so why complain about others assisting those who are disadvantaged? Look at comments made on this thread and others against women, so how can anyone deny that their is discrimination. If it is harder to get a job at one place, why can't someone create training to help make it possible to get another job? This isn't about giving jobs to someone who hasn't earned it, it's about helping compensate for discrimination by helping people by providing training so they have a slightly better fighting chance out in the world where discrimination still exists.

 

Before assuming that this program strictly prohibits white men, why don't you white males who assume you are facing reverse discrimination apply and see what happens? The program I did let many white men in, but the goal what clearly stated as helping minorities. If they then say no men, take them to court, but until then, you have not been discriminated against, so don't act like you have, yet

 

Helping minorities does not mean that they are hurting you in anyway, so let them be! There is nothing wrong with helping others.

[Guest]

Oh good grief do you ever shut-up?

 

Ok Ok Ok, I hear you, we all hear you.

 

R,

[Michele Peterson]

I'm supposed to shut up because you try to tell me to! Yeah right. I wash' t even repling to you. It's not all about you and what you want. If you can't take the heat get out.

[Guest]

I'm supposed to shut up because you try to tell me to! Yeah right. I wash' t even repling to you. It's not all about you and what you want. If you can't take the heat get out.

 

Geez, I'll bet you're a "joy" to work with on set.

 

R,

[Michele Peterson]

Geez, I'll bet you're a "joy" to work with on set.

 

R,

 

 

And someone like you who tells people to shut up because you can't handle someone else having an opinion is a "joy." I have no fear of standing up and saying what I believe, so stop trying to intimidate and insult to get me to back off, it isn't going to work and it only makes you look childish for not being able to handle other people's views. It doesn't get any more childish than telling someone to shut up.

[Guest]

And someone like you who tells people to shut up because you can't handle someone else having an opinion is a "joy." I have no fear of standing up and saying what I believe, so stop trying to intimidate and insult to get me to back off, it isn't going to work and it only makes you look childish for not being able to handle other people's views. It doesn't get any more childish than telling someone to shut up.

 

I think you're the one who can't handle any other view point except your own. You have made that quite clear...you have a total inability to process logic.

 

R,

[Justin Hayward]

I'm feeling Richard's pain.

[Michele Peterson]

I think you're the one who can't handle any other view point except your own. You have made that quite clear...you have a total inability to process logic.

 

R,

[/quote

 

Just because I don't change my mind to your viewpoint doesn't mean I can't handle it. I'm not the one who tried to tell someone else to shut up to keep them from voicing their beliefs. No one is forcing you to read the thread, if you get sick of it, just stop, life is as simple of as that.

 

If you'd like to continue dwelling on it, go ahead, but I'm not going to waste my Saturday night b*tching online and instead we go interact with real people.

[Guest]

I'm married with two kids so I can stay at home and interact with real people, I don't need to go out.

 

Cue Michele Peterson's comment: "Oh I feel sorry for your wife and kids, blah blah blah."

 

Any way, can't you sink your fangs into Phil Rhodes for a few hours? Did you see what he said about hiring women & having to pay for maternity costs etc?

 

I thought you would have totally freaked out over that one.

 

R,

[Chris Keth]

Even the Canadian performers union openly discriminates against white males. This is right off the ACTRA web site:

 

5. When you purchase your sixth work permit (or third, if you are a visible minority or differently abled), advise the ACTRA Membership Department that you want to become a Full ACTRA member, pay your initiation fee ($450) and annual dues ($195)

 

Visible minorities only need three credits to join ACTRA, whites need six. This is blatant discrimination on the basis of race and yet some how ACTRA gets away with this! Heck even white women are disadvantaged by this policy!!

 

How this is legal I have no idea? Clearly the Canadian constitution forbids such a discriminatory practice.

 

R,

 

It's tough to fully include the profession of acting in all of this talk of racial equality. It is one of very, very few professions where only someone of X race/sex can fill a job. Are you going to insist that you be considered to play the part of "Chinese woman #4"?

[Guest]

Are you going to insist that you be considered to play the part of "Chinese woman #4"?

 

Are you asking me? If so, of course not. Just as a black man can't be cast to play George Washington and a white man can't be cast to play Nelson Mandella.

 

R,

[Chris Keth]

Are you asking me? If so, of course not. Just as a black man can't be cast to play George Washington and a white man can't be cast to play Nelson Mandella.

 

R,

 

Exactly, so what you complained about above re: the Canadian performers union is really the legitimate concerns of a union that has to have enough people in its ranks to fill the various jobs that come up. It's the same thing as if there were a "2nd AC shortage" and 600 started waiving the initiation fees for anyone who entered as a 2nd.

 

They apparently need more minorities than they currently have so they're making sure they join.

[Guest]

Exactly, so what you complained about above re: the Canadian performers union is really the legitimate concerns of a union that has to have enough people in its ranks to fill the various jobs that come up. It's the same thing as if there were a "2nd AC shortage" and 600 started waiving the initiation fees for anyone who entered as a 2nd.

 

They apparently need more minorities than they currently have so they're making sure they join.

 

Errrr, no. That is not their motivations at all.

 

R,

[Chris Keth]

Errrr, no. That is not their motivations at all.

 

R,

 

Since the most logical motivation is apparently wrong, what is the right answer?

[Phil Rhodes]

Since the most logical motivation is apparently wrong, what is the right answer?

 

Political correcntess.

 

Pressure from people with a victim complex.

 

Pressure from other people who don't have a victim complex but probably are willing to take any chance they can get.

 

P

[Damien Bhatti]

Political correcntess.

 

Pressure from people with a victim complex.

 

Victim complex? Ethnic minorities do suffer real discrimination, and a complex suggests that, that is imagined. I do not think thats the case. (If that is what you meant, I am not sure)

 

Isnt political correctness in its most basic, rational mode a fail safe against the predominantly racist and bigoted attitudes that exist in Britain today?

 

(I know that political correctness is hated when it gets taken to the nth degree (like Matthews ticket)) but when people criticize political correctness what is being volunteered in its place? What was before political correctness?

[Guest]

Since the most logical motivation is apparently wrong, what is the right answer?

 

Well it's very difficult to discuss this because there are such strong feelings so emotion quickly enters the debate, as we have seen, and logic gets tossed to the side.

 

The reality is why do I care? If ACTRA requires whites to have 100 credits and minorities to have 1 why should I care?

 

I'm never going to join ACTRA any way so in reality it has nothing to do with me, nor will it ever.

 

R,

[Michael Lehnert]

What's even better than all of this is the amount of maternity leave and pay women get.

 

In the most extreme examples, it's now an extremely bad idea to ever offer full time employment to women of childbearing age in the UK because you will end up funding their lives if they decide to have kids.

 

P

 

 

Wow, Phil, I guess this is not your real personal view but just a flamethrower argument for fun's sake to keep this thread boiling... isn't it?

[Michael Lehnert]

[second attempt to get this post properly hyperlinked, sorry for original scramble]

 

Thank you for backing me up, Michael.

 

I have come across one old thread that was completely ridiculous and proves how far there still is to go. And what stupid comments some people are willing to make in public and how few people have the balls to say something against it.

 

No one ever thought twice about me working in medicine and lifting patients carrying 150+ lbs patients (or 2 women carrying a 250lbs patient on a 65lb gurney that had to be lifted up off the ground), but I carry a 25lb camera and jaws drop.

No one thinks twice about a woman carrying a sleeping child weighing 50lbs up a flight of stairs to put him to bed, but carrying a camera is questioned.

 

When men carry the ever-growing weight of about 40lbs for 9 months without putting it down EVER, then you can call yourself strong.

When men stretch their penis 10 time their normal size to pass a human being through, then you can call yourself tough.

 

Discrimination against women is just a pathetic attempt for men who feel inadequate to compensate for the inherent power women have from sex, controlling procreating/passing of genes and raising children.

 

 

No problemo. I like your style, Michele!

 

Quite overdue here to shake things up a bit, again ;) . After all, this thread has already been there back in May, when I posted this reply here. So, nothing new under the sun, I'm afraid.

 

Remember, we have these "What's your favourite DoP? or "who would you like to apprentice with" threads going on for nearly a year now in the cinematography sub-forum with the same names of currently working DoPs reiterated again and again and no female DoP shows up in these lists, and very few historical or great masters of this profession before 1990, too. So much for imagination.

Then Jaqueline started this thread about female DoPs, but after postings from the usual serious suspects, it unfortunately died down. That alone says alot about female presence in cinematography.

 

As you are based in LA (lucky you), maybe you should get in touch with Geena Davies. She is currently running an interesting little project that deals with the visibility (or lack thereof) of women in the profession and on screen (small and big). Nothing fancy, nothing well-funded, and just at the beginning, but if you are interested, PM me for further details (I will be away for the next week but will reply ASAP after that).

 

I am also working on two project with Maria Shriver and the Royal Commission of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. Both are in its infancy but might develop into something next year. Can't promise anything but I will bear your name in mind.

 

Best wishes,

 

-Michael

[Daniel Smith]

This is why Labour are so popular. They offer everything, and claim it's to balance things out so that the middle class who are worth over a million aren't the only ones who can live/function in this country.

 

The fact that it's complete bullsh*t goes without mention as the UK public will believe anything the better looking guy says.

 

 

From what I've seen it's the lower class and middle class that take the liberal ass kissing route, the lower class as labour will offer them just about anything they like to keep their vote, and the middle class as they have so much money they couldn't care less they just like to jump on the popular liberal fashion band wagon and show everyone how fair they are.

 

Whereas the working class pay their bills, stay out of trouble, and get raped out of whatever money is left to go elsewhere to fund labours votes.

 

As a working class citizen I believe it's better to allow people to achieve their goals on their individual basis, not because of what ethnic group/social class they come from.

 

And the funny thing is, a lot of people from ethnic minorities have this same ideology. It's the white token idiots that have caused most of this positive discrimination controversy.

 

‘Outlaw’ starring Sean Bean is an interesting film to watch addressing this.

 

Politics is now a fashion in Britain. Love Greenday, love weed, fight criminals with love, be a nimby, compare anything a trickle righter on the political spectrum to fascists, and you're the popular kid.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Daniel Ashley-Smith

[Matthew Buick]

I agree, Danny. Stalin...err...Gordon Brown and his left wing cronies couldn't care less about the voters of this country. White or of colour, otherwise they wouldn't create this hellish racist laws that drive a huge wedge down modern Britain. No doubt The Conservatives and Lib Dems will be just as bad. The BNP will be absolutely the opposite of New Labour, and life will likely be a living hell for all ethnic minorities. I hate the idea of UKIP. And I don't have a clue who I should vote for next year. Either Jeremy Clarkson or The Monster Raving Loony Party. See our fabulous line-up. :lol:

 

(I know that political correctness is hated when it gets taken to the nth degree (like Matthews ticket)) but when people criticize political correctness what is being volunteered in its place? What was before political correctness?

 

Fame At Last!! :o Though very well put, in moderation just about anything's good. PC is currently being taken to a mad extreme.

 

 

Oh, Michele Peterson. The vast majority of men on this forum, myself included, would love to work on a film with a woman, not that I've actually 'worked' as such but you get the idea. Please don't take the sexist preconceptions of a few as the attitude of the many. Most people here won't appreciate a ranter. I'm 17, and I've been a childish moron on this forum, and people will lose all respect for you, I think I've largely recovered my image here, but it hasn't been easy. Don't make the mistake of upsetting people here, they will not forget it lightly.

 

 

Also, does anyone know a decent cure for Typer's Cramp? It's bloody agony.

[Michele Peterson]

I'm not worried about people not liking me because I'm a strong woman. I didn't get where I am by backing down and giving in to sexism.

 

Richard, if you want to go your own way as you said, then just let it go, but continuing to personally refer to me in response to posts that weren't even referring to you in the first place is just instigating a response. As I said before, if you don't like it, don't read it. Voicing my opinion is my prerogative as much as it is anyone else's. But "Blah, Blah, Blah" and "shut up" are not mature responses to something/someone you don't like.

 

As far as the maternity leave comment goes, that just proves the need for these types of programs that are being criticized. Thankful there are people in the world who understand this and are not sexist and racist.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Michele Peterson

[Phil Rhodes]

As far as the maternity leave comment goes, that just proves the need for these types of programs that are being criticized.

 

No.

 

You didn't choose to be female; it is unreasonable to hold that against you.

 

People do, however, choose to have children, and I don't think that other people should be forced to pay for that choice.

 

P

[Michele Peterson]

No.

 

You didn't choose to be female; it is unreasonable to hold that against you.

 

People do, however, choose to have children, and I don't think that other people should be forced to pay for that choice.

 

P

 

 

You're assuming all women will leave every job to have kids and only companies will pay for it, but many women don't have children so assuming they will is ridiculous. Private health insurance also is used to pay for it. Men also have the same legal right to take paternity leave.

Edited September 21, 2008 by Michele Peterson