Moses Remembered

[James Steven Beverly]

People kill people, no doubt.

 

Exactly, the defense rests. In my closing argument, I will simply state that I am not HAPPY that people are killed by guns every year in the US but I am willing to pay the price of that tragedy in order to uphold a larger, more important ideal. The ideal that free governments should fear their people much more than the people fear them. Jefferson was, from his statements, in agreement with me, as was Heston, so I find myself in good company. A free nation must have the means to enforce it's ideals even at the cost in blood of it's citizens. We have paid this price again and again from the very infancy of our nation's history and will pay that price until there is no United States of America left on the face of this Earth. This is who we are and who we will always be so long as we are Americans......Thank you ladies and gentlemen of the jury. B)

[James Steven Beverly]

This got heated. Sorry I started it. Oh well.

 

Anyway, one last stab: If someone wants to harm another person, it doesn't matter much whether it's a firearm that's handy or a tire iron; they'll do what they want to do.

 

I just don't feel that guns are any more dangerous than any of the hundreds of other objects that could be used to kill a person. Yes, they can be used to harm. So can myriad other things.

Thank you. ;)

[James Steven Beverly]

I thought logic might work.....

 

Clearly I was mistaken.....:-)

 

jb

As Spock would say, "Sir, Your logic is flawed."

[James Steven Beverly]

Note to my European and Australian friends....do not try and figure out why Americans think it's normal for civilians to carry a gun. I lived in the USA for five years, and I never came close to understanding it, I don't think those of us outside of the USA will ever comprehend this uniquely American trait.

 

R,

 

I don't really understand what you find so bizarre about owning a gun or even having a permit to carry that gun concealed on your person, if you're a law abiding citizen, what difference does it make if you have a gun on you or not? Chances are astronomical YOU'RE not gonna be the guy blowing a hole in your neighbor because his dog took a dump on your lawn. Do Europeans and Australians have so much trouble controlling their tempers and are such hot heads that if they COULD carry a gun, they would immediately whip it out and blow someone away for pissing them off like some demented Dirty Harry wannabe?

 

There are a TON of cops in the US that have never even drawn their weapons one time in a 20 year career. The people who have carry permits here go through extensive training and a thorough background check before the permit is ever issued. Felons, however, who I might add are by law forbidden to possess fire arms under threat of SEVERE jail time, are the ones robbing and shooting innocent people. The guys with carry permits simply are trying to defend themselves from criminals who are already banned from owning guns but don't seem to give a good god-damn that having a gun is illegal.

 

I've lived in the West my entire life, EVER BODY has guns. I've NEVER seen a gun fired in anger or even in defense. I know dozens of people who have carry permits and except for my former brother in law, who is a Border Patrol Agent, none of them ever even pulled out their guns just to show it to me. We actually take weapons safety VERY seriously here in the US. I own maybe 6 guns and there have been times I coulda throttled certain people, never ONCE did it ever even occur to me to go get any of my guns and shoot them with it. Owning a gun does not turn you into a homicidal manic or a criminal any more than owning a knife gives you the urge to stab someone in the heart. YOU GUYS are the ones with strange ideas. Holding a pistol doesn't have some evil power that instantly possesses you and turns you into some kind of lunatic who's gonna climb up into a tower and start picking off coeds. I can only come to the conclusion you don't trust yourselves with deadly force OR you've been so brainwashed by your societies, that you believe government officials are the best people to make your major decisions for you. EITHER WAY, it's a very revealing insight into the European and Australian way of thinking.

Edited April 21, 2008 by James Steven Beverly

[Guest]

I thought logic might work.....

 

Clearly I was mistaken.....:-)

 

jb

 

No logic won't work. You might as well tell James and Chris that in a nation of laws the people don't need to arm themselves because the rule of law is superior.

 

Like I said you can argue this point with them for a thousand years and you'll just keep getting Chuck Norris style logic in return.

 

This is after all the nation where The Terminator is the governor of California :blink: And Jesse Ventura was the governor of Minnesota :blink:

 

R,

[John Brawley]

EITHER WAY, it's a very revealing insight into the European and Australian way of thinking.

 

 

Um. I think you mean insight into the REST of the developed world.

 

jb

[James Steven Beverly]

No logic won't work. You might as well tell James and Chris that in a nation of laws the people don't need to arm themselves because the rule of law is superior.

 

Like I said you can argue this point with them for a thousand years and you'll just keep getting Chuck Norris style logic in return.

 

This is after all the nation where The Terminator is the governor of California :blink: And Jesse Ventura was the governor of Minnesota :blink:

 

R,

Really......In 1932 Germany was a nation of laws. By 1939, it had concered all od contiental Eroup and England was fighting for it's very life. Laws are nothing more than words written on paper. PEOPLE give laws their power and people with guns enforce the rule of law. The rule of law is only superior if the people can defend their ideals from the tyrants who usurp those laws for their own selfish, power hunger and greedy ends. Guns are what secures freedom, not noble ideals. Ideals are only as strong as the people's ability to defend them. Again, as Moe said, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun and as Jefferson said No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. and The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. And as for electing bozo government officials, do you Canadians REALLY want to go there?! :rolleyes:

[James Steven Beverly]

Um. I think you mean insight into the REST of the developed world.

 

jb

 

The Crusades, The Inquisition, The 100 Years war, The Napoleonic Wars, World War I, World War II, The Holocaust, The Stalinist Purges, The Balkan War....Yeah "developed" :blink: No wonder we Americans pay so much attention to what the rest of the "civilized" world thinks. :rolleyes:

[Guest]

"And as for electing bozo government officials, do you Canadians REALLY want to go there?!"

 

Actually yes I do as a matter of fact. I would really like to hear an American name bozo government officials in Canada and describe with historical facts what made them bozos.

 

This should be good, I can't wait.

 

I know you'll have to hit Google in a big way right now, let's face it you could not name the Prime Minister of Canada without first doing a Google search. Nor could you name the major political parties in Canada, or describe Canadian Parliamentary Democracy.

 

So yes please....I want to hear your take on Candian government bozos.

 

R,

[James Steven Beverly]

Never mind, Richie, you're right, Canada is the land of Unicorns, covered in fairy dust where money grows on bushes and soup flows out of mountain springs. Actually it only took one hit on Google:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canad...itical_scandals

 

and you're exactly right, I really COULDN'T name the Canadian Prime Minister without doing a Google search.....what does that say about Canada's relevance in the order of world events? Maybe you guys outta get a little MORE involved in shaping world opinion. If Canada had a more pronounced impact on world events, there'd be no way I wouldn't know who your Prime Minister is, Right?

[Guest]

Those are scandals, you said I could get a break down of Canadian political bozos.

 

The reason every one knows who the president of the United States is is because Americans elected the biggest bozo in the history of well....history. Not once, but twice!!

 

The first time he didn't even get the most votes and still won!!! :blink:

 

If our PM slept with an 18 year old intern or launched some half assed invasion you'd know who he was, he'd be all over the US media. :D

 

R,

[James Steven Beverly]

Those are scandals, you said I could get a break down of Canadian political bozos.

 

The reason every one knows who the president of the United States is is because Americans elected the biggest bozo in the history of well....history. Not once, but twice!!

 

The first time he didn't even get the most votes and still won!!! :blink:

 

If our PM slept with an 18 year old intern or launched some half assed invasion you'd know who he was, he'd be all over the US media. :D

 

R,

Well my definition of a bozo is someone who CAUSES scandals out of greed and stupidity, you know morons like what we have in our current administration. As for your next 3 points, Hey, you're preachin' to the Choir on those, Buckaroo. Hard to argue the opposing side especially when you in total agreement with your opponent. SO I shall concede those points but ONLY say it make the argument for THE PEOPLE having the right to own guns all the more pertinent and relevant.

 

As for your point that the only reason that people around the world know the Oval Office Idiot is because he IS an idiot, I will disagree with you on that point. Even if the imbecile Bush hadn't made the presidency into a world class laughing stock, pretty much everyone around the world would know his name simply because he IS the president of the United States. Like it or not, what we do DOES effect the world.

 

HOWEVER, for Canada, I also agree that if your PM pulled the same jackassed bullsh*t that Bush and to some extent Clinton did, He WOULD be a household name around the world. I guess what you guys really need is bigger, more creative and grander scandals. A Kind of Monster truck rally sized scandal. I recommend having your PM sleep with a goat, then make it Minister of the Interior and just for good measure, invade Switzerland in order to take over their chocolate reserves. 'Course with those Swiss Army knives, it may take the Canadian army decades before the PM can get on the deck of an aircraft carrier and give a "Mission Accomplished" speech, but all the better for making your PM world famous. B)

Edited April 21, 2008 by James Steven Beverly

[John Holland]

I have missed out on this one . Charlton Heston made some really good films , but turned into a loony gun supporter . Michael Moore showed him up very well in""Columbine " I have said this before on here but i will not set foot in the US of A until that Chimp look alike President you as Richard said VOTED for TWICE is long gone , have a nice day .

[Guest]

Yeah, geez John, you're the guy who shows up late for the bar fight and says, "what can I do?" :D

 

There was only a few of us Commonwealth folk to try and talk some sense into the Americans. It had no effect as you can see. :blink:

 

R,

[Leo Anthony Vale]

There was only a few of us Commonwealth folk to try and talk some sense into the Americans. It had no effect as you can see. :blink:

 

Last night's CBS Evening News claimed Pennsylvania schools shut down for the opening day of deer season, implying it's a state holiday.

 

The schools I went to sure didn't do that.

 

Hillary's claim that her grandfather taught her to shoot ducks in Scranton sounds frighteningly Cheneyesque. I wonder if it was in the Dunder-Mifflin parking lot?

[Guest]

Last night's CBS Evening News claimed Pennsylvania schools shut down for the opening day of deer season, implying it's a state holiday.

 

Well that I can under stand, Canadian schools shut down for the opening of baby seal clubbing season.

 

Hmmmm, getting close to shining up ye olde clubbing stick ;)

 

R,

[Chris Keth]

Last night's CBS Evening News claimed Pennsylvania schools shut down for the opening day of deer season, implying it's a state holiday.

 

I can verify that, I grew up in rural PA. I grew up hunting. It's a big culture thing in rural areas. It's not an official holiday, though. It's district-by-district.

 

The reason I was told we always got it off was that most people would be out hunting anyway, so they might as well not all be truant. I would estimate that of the 88 people I graduated with, probably 70 were hunters. That does include a lot of females.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Chris Keth

[James Steven Beverly]

I have missed out on this one . Charlton Heston made some really good films , but turned into a loony gun supporter . Michael Moore showed him up very well in""Columbine " I have said this before on here but i will not set foot in the US of A until that Chimp look alike President you as Richard said VOTED for TWICE is long gone , have a nice day .

 

Ah what a shame and here we were planing changing April 1 to a John Holland national holiday. You really think Moore showed up Heston? The way I saw it, Moore basically ambushed Chuck with some bullsh*t, cowardly ruse rather than having the balls to talk to him like a man face to face and being up front with him what the interview was gonna be about. Heston is a man who would have stood up for what he believed in but there was no way he was gonna stand for that crap. Who can blame him, nither would I. . I was amazed he had the self control to just stand up and walk away, If it had been me, I'da punched the fat f*ck square in the face for being a sleazy, sneaky weasel. I generally at very least have a tolerance what Moore does but that particular clown show was nothing more than what a popparatzzi does when they say something scummy and rude to get a shot of a celebrity at their worst. As for your last statement, your prime minister supported the chimp's actions so maybe you otta move outta England too. I hear France is nice this time of year. .......Oh yeah, YOU have a nice day too. :rolleyes:

Edited April 23, 2008 by James Steven Beverly

[John Holland]

France is nice anytime of the year . Yes our born again nutty PM got together with your born again nutty President and decided to bomb the "Bad People " two wrongs dont make it right .

[Guest]

France is nice anytime of the year . Yes our born again nutty PM got together with your born again nutty President and decided to bomb the "Bad People " two wrongs dont make it right .

 

Canada stayed out of Iraq, geez we're awesome, always picking the right wars.

 

Afghanistan is of course different it's a UN and NATO authorized mission, Bush got that one right. One out of two, ain't bad!

 

R,

[Leo Anthony Vale]

Well that I can under stand, Canadian schools shut down for the opening of baby seal clubbing season.

 

Hmmmm, getting close to shining up ye olde clubbing stick ;)

 

A baby seal waddles into a bar.

 

The bar tender asks him: 'What'll you have?'

 

'Anything but a Canadian Club.'

[Leo Anthony Vale]

I can verify that, I grew up in rural PA. I grew up hunting. It's a big culture thing in rural areas. It's not an official holiday, though. It's district-by-district.

 

I was in one of the two cities which have Alabama in between.

 

I hesitate to say urban PA, since that word seems to be aquiring a new meaning.

 

The nuns weren't going to let us out to go hunting.

[Guest]

A baby seal waddles into a bar.

 

The bar tender asks him: 'What'll you have?'

 

'Anything but a Canadian Club.'

 

Good One!!

 

R,

[John Brawley]

We actually take weapons safety VERY seriously here in the US. I own maybe 6 guns and there have been times

 

 

Yep. Sooo seriously. Do you actually know how many guns you have ? Do you wear all 6 of them ? Different one for each day of the week ? Are Sunday's off ?

 

jb

[John Brawley]

Heston is a man who would have stood up for what he believed in but there was no way he was gonna stand for that crap. Who can blame him, nither would I. . I was amazed he had the self control to just stand up and walk away,

 

 

Actually to me the poor guy just came across as kinda senile. It was pretty sad......it was a low blow.....

 

jb