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Panasonic Varicam 3700


Joe Walker

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Sorry but if a camera can only shoot 30 frames per second that does not meet the International Telecommunications Union ITU specifications for high definition.

 

Like saying if a soda isn't Coke then it's not the real thing. A silly argument and false. 30 is indeed a HD frame rate. In fact nothing frame rate has changed.

 

23.976p, 23.98pFs 24p, 25p, 30p, 50i, 50p, 60i, 59.94, 60p, 59.97, all acceptable frame rates.

 

Please don't start a ridiculous thread with such nonsense. A look at the other four posts you made all involve some sort of notion about frame rates and other assorted amateurish ramblings.

 

 

This board is going from professional lately to very amateur. Folks should read the top of their browser frame before posting:

 

"Cinematography.com - A Community of Film and Television Production Professionals"

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As Mitch says, this camera simply can't have it due to design, ....

It's because of moving and storage.

 

Take pixels wide times pixels high times bits per pixel, and that's what you have to move around and store for each frame. Divide that into the maximum bit rate you can handle, and that's how many frames per second you can shoot. I'd expect Panasonic to beef up their moving and storage to make higher frame rates/slower mo at full 1080p quality. Where and how you use data compression has a lot to do with it.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

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It's because of moving and storage.

 

Take pixels wide times pixels high times bits per pixel, and that's what you have to move around and store for each frame. Divide that into the maximum bit rate you can handle, and that's how many frames per second you can shoot. I'd expect Panasonic to beef up their moving and storage to make higher frame rates/slower mo at full 1080p quality. Where and how you use data compression has a lot to do with it.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

 

 

 

I gotcha, that makes sense. So (out of curiosity) in your professional opinion John, when do you see a "high speed" 1080 Varicam hitting the market?

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... when do you see a "high speed" 1080 Varicam hitting the market?

That's very hard to say. I was expecting Panasonic to get a D-5 add-on to compete with HDCam SR a lot quicker than they did, but they hit a lot of roadblocks in that development effort. Maybe next NAB, maybe not for a few years, maybe they're thinking to go beyond 60 fps, to leapfrog rather than just catch up. There's a lot of stuff that works nicely in the low hundreds of fps, like pouring liquids for TV commercials.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

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P2 is fantastic for shooting features - instant review - instant and free (cost of hard drive) dailies. And the cards are easily large enough for narrative work. Having shot over 3000 p2 cards worth of footage, never having lost a clip and utilizing many of the benefits I am very much in favor of the workflow. And with the coming 64 gig cards allowing over 8 hours of shooting on a a 4 card load - its beginning to look attractive for documentary work.

 

But they are bandwidth limited in the sense that 4:4:4 uncompressed will never work with those cards - unless Panny develops some smart buffering (a la phantom) - but 4:2:2 is really enough for nearly all purposes.

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If you look at the industry as a whole, it is less a necessary feature, than one widly used.

 

EDIT - this is in reference to overcranking (slow motion).

 

I think this feature is not as widely used BECAUSE so many cameras dont offer it. It is another tool and by having that tool available you can consider using it creatively. Its a feature that allows you to do things that you might not consider if its not in front of you. Subtle slow motion for emphasis - or 2.5 times slower (if 24 frame timebase) for more dramatic motion. Needed? no - but certainly a great tool in the toolbox.

Edited by Seth Melnick
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  • 2 weeks later...

The P2 cards have enough bandwidth for six times 100Mbit, the extra bandwidth is needed for verify data... But I thing a 200 AVC-intra 4:4:4 would be feasible with the current hardware for 30fps.

 

As an owner of a Varicam F, I just bought a HPM110 and upgraded my Varicam with AVC-Intra, ohh I also have the tape! so no backup for me...

 

So this is a declaration: My next camera will have a 35mm sensor, never again 2/3, finished, never for me. I don't care about resolution I do care about DoF and latitude or bit depth.

 

So if Panasonic wants me it has to build a 35mm Varicam with 200 AVC-Intra Log (equivalent to Cineon 850), 1-75fps, 12 stops and in the price range of 30K$ to 50K$... Ohh I forgot in a separate P2 card, DV proxies with the same filenames as the master clips for immediate off line capability and easy relink (no mpg4, a good intra frame all around format). Also a 1Gbit Ethernet port with the proxy card as a network drive with enough bandwidth to do editing directly from the proxy card while the camera still records... so remote edit and playback without removing the proxy card! If they want more ideas they have to pay me!

 

This is a dream probably...

 

Thats my two euro cents...

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So this is a declaration: My next camera will have a 35mm sensor, never again 2/3, finished, never for me. I don't care about resolution I do care about DoF and latitude or bit depth.

 

So if Panasonic wants me it has to build a 35mm Varicam with 200 AVC-Intra Log (equivalent to Cineon 850), 1-75fps, 12 stops and in the price range of 30K$ to 50K$... Ohh I forgot in a separate P2 card, DV proxies with the same filenames as the master clips for immediate off line capability and easy relink (no mpg4, a good intra frame all around format).

 

This is a dream probably...

 

Thats my two euro cents...

 

 

Highly agreed, that's the point I was trying to make!

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EDIT - this is in reference to overcranking (slow motion).

 

I think this feature is not as widely used BECAUSE so many cameras dont offer it.

I think it's not widely used because it doesn't often help tell the story, particularly with character driven dramas. Dialogue pretty much forces you to be normal speed. Slow and fast motion have been available in film for about a hundred years, and a vast majority of what's done is at normal speed. Can you think of examples from movies you've seen of things that would have worked better in slow or fast motion?

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

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