4 AM

[Nate Yolles]

So it's 4 in the morning. I just got home from work. I'm gaffing this feature and tomorrow, excuse me - today - is my day off. It's really needed. 14 hour days and not enough crew. We've been getting rained on, flooded and hailed on. My feet are killing me. I need a hair cut and I haven't even been able to deposit my pre-production check. So what am I doing on my day off.... lets just say call time is at 10.

[Carlos M. Icaza]

Yikes !

 

get some rest and good luck....

 

C.-

 

 

(I think the board time is off, it is 5:45am when I posted this not 4:45am)... Hmmm...

Edited October 29, 2004 by Carlos M. Icaza

[JONATHANEDWARDS]

I recall reading an article in one of those production magazines that general film production crew have a 30% decreases in life expectancy than any other general labour.

 

I think this is the conditions that article was referring to

[Guest fstop]

That's total BS- how come all the greats live til like 80 and 90? I saw Freddie Francis and Jack Cardiff give a lecture a coupla years ago and the former was about 86 and the latter nearly 90- they were both youthful, on the ball, energetic- the only thing telling was that they didn't walk too fast, but even still, I don't see many other 85-90 year olds so full of energy with their heads screwed on!

 

Freddie Young lived till 95- Paul Wilson, who's been in cameras since the early 40s is still shooting the models on the Bond movies- a friend of mine is in good contact with Richard H Kline who must be about 80 too and he's up and running all the time and a ridiculously informed conversationalist!

 

You love movies Nate, and everyone knows you'd rather be there killing yourself doing something you love as oppose to having a cushy 9-5 at Walmart or where ever! You're doing great work sir! :)

[John Sprung]

It either kills you or makes you stronger. Some philosopher said something like that once.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[David Mullen ASC]

I've heard the same rumors. Some study found that the average number of pension checks to a retired IATSE member was something like 12... Of course, they may be retiring at 80 on average. Shortest lifespans were those crew members dealing with chemicals, like stage efx people, painters, propmakers, etc.

 

I just spend two weeks on "Dot" breathing smoke for 12 hours each day. The manufacturers only test the safety of that stuff for a one-hour recommended exposure.

 

The work is exhausting and not in the most healthful way -- it's not like I'm getting a great cardio workout on the set. And eating dinner at midnight for one week and 6PM the next week can't be all that heathy. However, probably there is more danger from falling asleep while driving home than anything else.

Edited October 29, 2004 by David Mullen

[Guest subclass-todd]

However, probably there is more danger from falling asleep while driving home than anything else.

 

Hi,

 

I did fall asleep driving home after a shoot one night. I was out for about 1/4 of a mile and almost had a heart attack when I woke up, not because I was in a ditch, but because I was still driving in the same lane!

 

The next day, a crew member who was behind me said she saw me roll through a red light, but didn't have my cell number to call and make sure I was alright.

 

That's the last time I'll ever drive that tired. If I have to sleep in a Wendy's parking lot, so be it.

Edited October 29, 2004 by subclass-todd

[Max Jacoby]

It either kills you or makes you stronger.

 

Working 14 hour days doesn't make you stronger, it just kills you. Period.

 

Especially on a feature I find working long hours completely irresponsible. Production often seem to forget that working that long is illegal and that if something happens to you, your insurance won't cover you. Also if you do 6 day weeks, there is just no way your body can recover in the short time off you are given.

 

I did a feature this summer where after a 12 hour day the production wanted to shoot with a reduced unit for 6 more hours because of a scene that hadn't been finished previoulsy. I refused, because my health is more important to me that money (I found the 1.5 times days pay they offered fo these 6 hourse to be insultingly low too). I once drove home after a 16 hour day and I nearly fell asleep on the wheel. After that I promised myself that i wouldn't do that anymore. But most people did the 18 hours and I actually got into trouble with the steadicam operator because he thought I wasn't a team player, despite the fact that I had found someone to replace me. That just goes to show how much disregard for people's health and safety is in this industry.

[JONATHANEDWARDS]

I don't believe it to be a true statement, but there is something to be said for the lack of sleep one can accumulate over the period of a project and what it does to a persons abilities to think with clarity.

 

I think its important to remember that in any study ,( funded my some insurance company im sure) Sometimes all it takes is one varabile to turn around the findings.

And the article i was talking about in my last post had slightly deeper meaning, to draw attention to the fact that non-union crews are all to offen under payed and over worked. Now the question is did they compile data to come to this conclusion from 10 over worked crews and forget about the 100's more that are not or is it realy a problem?

=:)

 

goodluck Nate on today

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I've only ever had 14 once. Night shoot - studio, so it didn't have to be, but it was nights all around it, so it made sense - and I just ended up suggesting a very minimalist, almost abstract way to shoot the rest of the scene. Happily it worked with the scene, but he didn't want to do it, and I had to risk not getting the support of everyone else ("Well, it's either that or we all go home now anyway") which was thankfully forthcoming. He wasn't happy, but they did actually end up with an editable production. I'm sure this isn't really the way to handle the situation, but it got us out of a hole.

 

And yes, if I was working on a production, we were forced to carry on to silly hours and my assistant decided to buck the trend and walk, I might not be that happy just on a personal level.

 

Phil

Edited October 29, 2004 by Phil Rhodes

[Luke Prendergast]

Longest day I've ever done was 25 hrs on a !$%#%^#$ theatre show (I'm not overly fond of theatre), lighting and set rigging. 8am arrival and didn't leave until 9am the next day, with two half hour meal breaks. Made more than a week's pay that night though.

The ridiculous set was designed by some shiny-bum (someone who spends all day sitting down) and they thought it would be really cool to clad the whole structure in metal sheeting. Including a solid ceiling. A whole 40ft semi trailer full of just this one touring set.

Someone else drove me home.

[David Mullen ASC]

I've done too many long days to even count. Usually there are a couple of 16 hour days on every feature I've done, and a lot of 14 hour days. I did a 20 hour day on the last day of both "Twin Falls Idaho" and "Northfork". And those were 6-day weeks.

 

With the union films I've shot, there has been a greater attempt to keep to 12 hours, mainly because of the overtime. And most of them have also been 5-day weeks.

[Michael Nash]

I think we've all been there, and if you're smart you realize that personal safety is far more important than a few more dollars in some producer's pocketboook.

 

I gaffed a low budget feature a couple years back where production had us do 14hrs. every day for the first three days. On day four the key grip turned off the genny at 12 hrs. After that, the hours became much more sane.

 

That said, there are those times when there is a legitimate reason to go long, and the key players agree to do so. And I've known many producers who are very respectful of the crew and try hard to keep the day to 12 hrs.

[Nathan Milford]

I pulled a 23 hour shoot once for some lame music video that wasn't worth it.

 

Never again.

 

I took the Subway home. Surprisingly I stayed awake for the entire commute out to Bay Ridge!

[Brad Grimmett]

  Now the question is did they compile data to come to this conclusion from 10 over worked crews and forget about the 100's more that are not or is it realy a problem?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think it would be a lot harder to find jobs that shot short hours, i.e. 10 or 12, than it would be to find jobs that shot 14, 16, 18, or longer. Nowadays, I'm more surprised when someone books me on a 10 hour day than when they book me on a 12 or longer. Seems like the 12's always want to have a 1 hour (unpaid) lunch as well, which makes the day even longer and doesn't even pay off.

[Bill DiPietra]

Come on, guys.

 

I'm a VOLUNTEER EMT and I very often pull double-shifts.

 

So whether it's film or, in my case, EMS, you can't deny that we do this stuff simply because we love it.

[Brad Grimmett]

Here's a good example of how crew's are treated in Hollywood. I was dayplaying on a movie yesterday, doing Steadicam, it was my second day on this movie. The producer called me on Friday to see if I was available for Saturday. I said I was and she asked me if I'd give her a break on the rate since I didn't work the whole ten hours on the previous day I worked with them. It was a ridiculous request, and I kind of laughed since they are already getting a very low rate, but she said the director (who seems to have ADD and doesn't understand the process of making a film) was insisting on it, so I said I would give them a small discount (since work has been a bit slow). So I show up at location at call time (10AM) and start shooting. It's all steadicam all day, including many running shots. Fine, no problem for me, but when 4PM (lunch time) is getting close the director says that we are going to work until it gets dark because we are behind (again the ADD). There was absolutely NO thought of paying anyone a meal penalty. These people don't even know what a meal penalty is, nor do they care. Some of the crew starts to complain a bit and we find out the lunch is actually there already, but they are going to let it sit out until 7PM, at which time we can eat. So, I've been in the rig all day, I'm starving, and I don't like what I'm hearing. So I put the rig on the stand, take off the arm, take off the vest, and politely ask where the food is. After all, I have to eat....we all do. And I made it very clear that I was going to eat before I started working again. Well, they can't very well do any steadicam shots without an operator, so they told us we had 15 minutes to eat. Heck, the bathrooms were at least a five minute walk away, and none of the camera crew (can't speak for other departments) had even had time to go to the bathroom. So when people talk about how pampered and lazy Hollywood crews are, it becomes apparent that they have no idea what they're talking about.

Yes, I chose this profession, and I love what I do, but I didn't choose to be abused or treated like a machine. There are things people need, no matter what they do. Water, food, bathrooms.....It's not like we want a trailer and to be paid $10 million per picture. I've worked on jobs before where we shot through lunch to save daylight, but the producers understood that people need to eat and go to the bathroom. They had food standing by for you when you had a few minutes to eat, and a bathroom close by, and more importantly, these things were discussed in advance so everyone knew what to expect.

So, please, enough with the "Hollywood crews do this and that, and cost SO much money....." unless you actually work out here and know what you're talking about.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

So get the union onto them!

 

Phil

[Brad Grimmett]

Hi,

 

So get the union onto them!

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What union? It's a non-union film.

[David Mullen ASC]

If they wanted to work until dark and then call lunch, they should have made call time 6 hours before sunset so that lunch naturally fell during twilight. But of course, they'd only have six hours of daylight, not seven or eight... Sounds either badly planned or no one was controlling the director (i.e. a producer). Not that I haven't been in the same position.

 

But working outdoors really means planning when lunch falls carefully so that you take advantage of the light. But you know that already...

 

There have been many times when they've called a "walking second meal" six hours after lunch and I've kept on working for another two hours or so until wrap and THEN remembered there was a second meal, which is long gone or cold as a rock.

[Nate Yolles]

Last night the producer walks up to me and says that since were on the last shot there won't be second meal, 5 minutes after second meal is due. He knows that we have an hour and a half wrap. He knows that our contract states every six hours we get a meal. I tell him the crew is going to walk away and leave all equipment out unless he brings second meal. Since he knows that he won't wrap cable he gets the meal, but only for G&E.

 

So the producer is trying to save a few dollars on not buying a meal. The consequences aren't worth the little money. Besides the fact that there are spending just under a million dollars and can't afford $20 for lunch is rediculious. The entire crew now becomes irritated, fights break out all over set, and I can tell you nobody takes the time to pack correctly, so L&D is going to be huge. He saved 20 bucks but he's going to be paying thousands in damaged equipment. The movie will suffer because lights I need won't be working and since they keep putting me at the point of "I just don't give a f*#$", instead of trying to make the scene beautiful, I just make sure there's enough light for exposure. Where I might ordinarily order for the big guns pounding through a 12by muslin and shaping the light, I end up bouncing the closest light I see into a bead board.

 

Anyways, like I said I'm gaffing this one, so I go up the chain and talk to the DP who doesn't really care. (gentlemen, to be a good dp, you must protect and appreciate your crew or they won't work for you and you can't do it by yourself) So I've ordered my Best Boy to padlock the genny (because the line producer keeps touching it, powering it up and down without idling). Power goes down precisely at lunch time. Unless they call grace, which they've done 90% of the time, so they can have their 15 minutes then the genny goes down. The genny goes down at second meal if it isn't there and the genny goes down at 14 hours since production won't pay overtime. If it goes down in the middle of a one-take only squib effect, tough. If they fire me because they are abusing my rights, hey, I have a computer job I do when not on set where I make twice as much money working half the hours- that's four times the dollar per hour, oh man now I'm depressed.

 

In order to save maybe 10 cents in gas, the producer has a PA turn off the generator at lunch. Which of course isn't good for kinos or HMIs. The sound guy gets flaming pissed off because it spikes his tape (not to mention they can loose up to 10 seconds of sound on the last take). So after lunch I tell the AD it takes 15 minutes to warm up the gennerator. Everybody is done eating standing around starring at a dark set wasting time and money while the generator idles. The 1st AC comes over and tells us that he loves us and just smiles, the AD isn't as appreciative.

 

The point is, that this movie is turning into the shoot from hell simply because the producer is abusing our basic rights and trust me, it affects the final product. Other than that, I love my crew and we're having a lot of fun joking around. A wise union key grip once told me "If you ain't having fun, go home."

[Nate Yolles]

Not to mention, for no apparent reason - same actors, same crew, same everything. They shoot day-for-night and then when the sun goes down, night-for-day. Do you know how much less work it would have been if they had simply switched those two scenes on the schedule?

[Max Jacoby]

One thing I have found is that very few people on the production side seem to have actual shooting experience. That's why they don't realize that trying to save money in the short term might cost them in the long term. For them it is always easier to say no, because if they say yes, that means they must take responsibility to spend money.

 

It's little things, like breaking for lunch on time and having a good catering table that will do a lot for the crew's morale and ultimately will lead to a more efficient shooting.

[LimHKim]

Guys.......

I have come up with some equations. Working O.T. = less rest = less productive = less time for family = more forgetful = more mistakes during work = more prone to accidents = more $$$$$$$$.

 

I guess better stay alert, stay healthy and stay ALIVE !!! :D

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I guess this would be a good time to bring up a scheduling issue for a short film I'm preparing.

 

I have a choice. Ten easy days, or eight rather hard-work days. Obviously, the correct answer is ten easy days, but nobody's getting paid that much on this. Personally I'd rather do the eight longer days and then go back to making a living, but I can't speak for everyone else and it looks like I'm just being a skinflint. There's no gigantic cost implication because I own most of the gear and the cast would only be shunted around a bit - there's some studio rental and a bit of equipment, and I think two extra cast days. I have an absolute rule that I pay everyone on personal projects, I've been screwed over too many times, even if it's a basic wage.

 

What do we think?

 

Phil