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Tim Terner

Doyle, Genious or Nutcase

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he was recently in town for the Australian Cinematographers Society 50th Anniversary and was caught grabbing my friends girlfriends ass. hehe it sounded like a good story.

 

I have heard from someone that he is the only cinematographer in the world who has a clause in his contract that allows him to drink on set while he is working. I dont know how true this is but it seems believable.

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Imo Chris Doyle is one of the best cinematographers alive, his sense of framing and lightning is unique, he said in one interview that in order to tell stories (in cinema) you have to live, cause then you have something to say, that's why he started to film at his early 30's, i think he border the line of genious, and nuttcase, but his work speaks for himself, In the mood for love, is one the the best movies that i've seen and the cinematography of doyle in that movie changed the way i saw the craft.

If going nuts like that makes you film beatuful films i wanna go nuts like doyle, lol.

 

and hes not the mick jagger of cinematography, he already said that hes the keith richards

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his work speaks for himself, In the mood for love, is one the the best movies that i've seen and the cinematography of doyle in that movie changed the way i saw the craft.

 

Agreed.

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Anyways.. who can recommend some good drugs?

 

Chocolate and Mushrooms although not neccesarily at the same time.

 

love

 

Freya

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Hmmm this turned out to be a much more intresting thread than I expected!

 

I've only watched it once but I wasn't actually sure he was drunk either. I'm sure he has had a drink but probably everyone there has had a drink. I'm not sure he hasn't taken something else tho but there we are.

 

I also didn't find him embaressing. I liked that he seemed to be genuinely trying to say stuff and seemed passionate. I actually find the normal stuff at these kind of events embarressing tho, and rather pointless too. It would be good if the people weren't allowed to thank anyone but instead had to talk about something important to them or to express themselves in some way. Someone mumbling through a list only to later be mortified that they have left someone really important off it just seems a bit horrible in some way and it all seems really inauthentic.

 

As for most great artists being on drugs. This is actually true of most of the planets population so it's hardly suprising it is true of most great artists. Also the fact that they have been taking drugs may be unrelated to the fact they have made great work. For example if someone is an avid coffee drinker, and starts taking coffee to excess and eventually has far too many cappachinos and dies of a caffiene overdose, it doesn't mean that all their great work was down to the caffeine even if it was all produced under the influence of.

 

Having said that I notice that a very large sector of the population are unable to express themselves without the use or excuse of drugs which I find very sad and is obviously something that could affect someones artistic work.

 

love

 

Freya

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A lot of these drugs, I think, basically open up a fat pipeline to the creative parts of the brain, including the unconscious mind, where dreams and archetypal sounds and imagery reside.

 

Others are just naturally hard-wired with a more direct connection to the creative parts of the brain, and sometimes pay a heavy price for that wiring. Just look at great writers like Tolstoy, Hemingway, Dostoyevsky, etc. They all died more or less insane. A lot of great writers are very heavy drinkers as well.

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A lot of these drugs, I think, basically open up a fat pipeline to the creative parts of the brain, including the unconscious mind, where dreams and archetypal sounds and imagery reside.

 

Others are just naturally hard-wired with a more direct connection to the creative parts of the brain, and sometimes pay a heavy price for that wiring. Just look at great writers like Tolstoy, Hemingway, Dostoyevsky, etc. They all died more or less insane. A lot of great writers are very heavy drinkers as well.

 

Hmmm I think you are sort of right about that, although I'm not convinced it's just the unconscious mind. Theres stuff out there basically and the longer you spend connected to it the more messy you can end up getting inside. Maybe an example might be staring into an infinity of mirrors for a long time or something. The infinity can mess with your head, you can lose track of "reality" and worst of all you can lose your..."self" even if you have a very strong "self", so it's a complicated thing. People also get plain confused. :)

 

Philip K. Dick wrote a great book about this called "The Zap Gun", (not about going insane but about connecting to the other stuff) which is quite a giggle and has all the usual twisty turny stuff you would expect from Mr Dick. It's worth checking out. It's about these people who pull all these strange inventions out of the black and they create weapons that way but basically none of the weapons really work and the Russians and Americans have these big demonstrations about their almighty and terrible weapons but they both keep it a secret from the other side that they don't really work, and thats when the alien warship turns up. :) So the Russian and American worker are both asked to collaborate to come up with a really big Zap Gun to save the world.

 

Of course it's said that Philip K Dick went off the deep end a bit towards the end. They said he was paranoid and he believed that the CIA were watching him and spying on him. On the other hand, after he died it was revealed that he was actually right and the CIA really were spying on him. A fitting twist to his story! :)

 

Speaking on this subject tho, alchol hardly seems like a drug that is any use for "opening the doors of perception", it seems more like a drug for shutting stuff off. I suspect that some of those great writers you were talking about may have been drinking to dull things down and to try and experience less because they had already experienced too much. If alchol did the kind of stuff you describe then I don't think it would remain legal too long!

 

love

 

Freya

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Speaking on this subject tho, alchol hardly seems like a drug that is any use for "opening the doors of perception", it seems more like a drug for shutting stuff off. I suspect that some of those great writers you were talking about may have been drinking to dull things down and to try and experience less because they had already experienced too much. If alchol did the kind of stuff you describe then I don't think it would remain legal too long!

 

love

 

Freya

 

You might be partially correct. It's certainly an interesting topic. I wonder if any good essays have been written about this.

 

However, a lot of writers will mention that some of their best ideas came to them while drinking. They don't drink while writing, generally, but rather, they tend to dream up ideas while drinking in the evenings or whatever. I know that a lot of times people feel more of a connection to art when under the influence of various substances. Ever wonder why 90% of the people at a rock concert are wasted out of their minds? It enhances the connection (often including the emotional connection) to the material for most people.

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or whatever. I know that a lot of times people feel more of a connection to art when under the influence of various substances. Ever wonder why 90% of the people at a rock concert are wasted out of their minds? It enhances the connection (often including the emotional connection) to the material for most people.

 

This is probably true but again I think this is about people letting go or being able to disable a part of themselves that is inhibiting them from expressing themselves or god knows, perhaps even feeling certain feelings. It allows them to be free for a moment to say and do what they might really want to and even comes with the built in excuse that they were just drunk. Of course they aren't really free because that same excuse is also what traps them and it just becomes a way of experiencing a fantasy instead of reality and when the drink wears off they will be back the way they were before.

 

love

 

Freya

Edited by Freya Black

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Well.. I think that the man lives his life the way he wants.. sure its eclectic.. sure maybe he does and says things people dont like.. but like his point of view on film.. he doesnt see the film.. he sees the people behind the film.. I think that is what people are doing.. people are looking at what he's doing.. not looking at who he is.. I think if everyone here stopped looking at him and looked into him.. and tried to understand that.. you wouldnt be critical of anything he does.. you would admire the man as much as his art.. infact I would goes as far as saying that you would be quite jealous and aspire to live your life as he does.. expressive and free.. a beautiful human being living life beautifully.. if you cant express yourself through life.. how do you expect to be able to express yourself through art.. Chris Doyles life is his art.. I doubt many of you can say the same.. and as for his and anyothers use of drugs or drinking for expression.. who cares.. really.. let people live their life.. cause we can all one day get hit by a bus..

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LOL, Doyle lists "Heineken" as his number one influence on cinematography. Is this really a surprise?

 

It's bad form to show up raving drunk or high at awards shows, but people know Doyle is crazy. But there is a reason he is one of the only "rock stars" in the world of cinematography. I would put his best work, like In the Mood for Love and 2046, up against any cinematographer, ever.

 

Many great artists are crazy as hell. Look at Dostoyevsky, Van Gough, Tolstoy, etc.

 

 

Many great artists are crazy, but not all who are crazy are great artists. This is a basic syllogism. Elvis Presley is dead, but not all who are dead are Elvis Presly.

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I doubt many of you can say the same.. and as for his and anyothers use of drugs or drinking for expression.. who cares.. really.. let people live their life.. cause we can all one day get hit by a bus..

 

The hidden lead: an argument against public transportation!

 

Or is it just me expessing my life as my art?

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Interesting 52min doc' on Doyle: Christopher Doyle Orientations

 

Apart of his work with WKW, movies he shot like Going Home, Last Life in the Universe, Invisible Waves,... are also absolutely superb.

 

Olivier: The clip you referenced looks intriguing. Unfortunately, factualtv.com insists on me having both a non-Mac computer and a rubbish browser.

 

All: Doyle is a great cinematographer. Go shoot something.

Edited by Mark Herzig

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Did he really say that? Of course everyone here knows that I agree with that assessment. :rolleyes:

 

max, in the october 2006 issue of AC Ballhaus talks about how Scorsese wanted him to take inspiration from the original Hong Kong film Infernal Affairs from which The Departed is based upon. You can read it yourself but basically he says that "Marty was pushing me to try something different. I tried to do that, but after a couple of days on the shoot I realized that although the (dark and mysteriously lit) styles of those movies were great for the particular stories they were telling, we were doing an American movie with American stars... I couldn't go that far with this movie."

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Olivier: The clip you referenced looks intriguing. Unfortunately, factualtv.com insists on me having both a non-Mac computer and a rubbish browser.

 

it currently plays on a Mac running Safari.

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Just bought Chunking Express and Mood for Love. Watched Chunking Express and was in no way impressed by the 'Cinematography'. Interesting Film.. but the Cinematography(?)... nothing special. Reminded me of Student Films... Will watch Mood for Love later this week and I hope to some 'stunning', 'amazing' or any other adjective that so often is used when referring to Doyle's work... hey, maybe I need to get real drunk to appreciate it.

 

In any event, after hearing all the 'hype' I decided to (see) for myself...

 

Unimpressed...

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I can agree with you David on Chung King; it was a good film but I didn't quite "get it" in terms of cinematography. I think that other examples of his work are better. One which springs to mind is "The Quiet American," which was an American film whose cinematography I really enjoyed.

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I did not think it was even a 'good' Film.. the only thing that kept me going was that it was a Location I have never visited... Hong Kong.

 

Thanks for the other referrals Adrian.. after Mood for Love (if I see something stunning) I'll check the others... I'll probably go on a major 'binder' just before viewing it.. so I can be on the same plane (altitude) as Mr. Doyle... :blink:

Edited by David Rakoczy

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I liked it because; well it was different as a film. Quiet American is a much more westernized film; It's more mainstream and is in English. Personally I always find sub-titles distracting the first few times through.

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David Rakoczy, I bet my last dollar you will change your tune after watching IN THE MOOD. ;)

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David, where are you at, my man? B)

 

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on IN THE MOOD.

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Hi Tom.

 

I own the DVD and will be getting to it soon. Just wrapped a couple shoots and hope to view it in a couple days.

 

I will let you know my thoughts on the Cinematography.... I promise. ;)

 

Hope all is well with you.

Edited by David Rakoczy

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In my opinion I think that it is not so much the drugs which enhance creativy but rather the business aspects of cinematography which kill all forms of creativity. I have met cinematographers on this site who are creative geniuses and have such advanced talents that they could put you inside of the movie if they so desired but would ultimately refuse simply because they feel that this technology is not practical from a business point of view. So they take a rather conservative approach and justify it by claiming that their livelihood depends on only promoting sucessfull business models which they can then sell to the producer.

 

I think that a cinematographer should decide whether he is a businessman or an artist and give up on the ideal that he can serve 2 masters.

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