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Grading with Computer Monitor Instead of Broadcast Monitor


Peter Moretti

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You can still get these 21" 2048 wide true flat CRTs off ebay for $40-$60 ($60 to ship the monsters). I snagged a lot of eight for $100. If you just want the best ratio of cost to performance. If you've got unlimited money, then ignore what I've said.

 

Paul, are you talking about a computer monitor here? Which one specifically and what kind of inputs? Thanks.

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Paul, are you talking about a computer monitor here? Which one specifically and what kind of inputs? Thanks.

 

I've got a few of these:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-21-P275-FD-Trinitr...id=p3286.c0.m14

 

Two of these:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEC-ACCUSYNC-21-CRT-FL...id=p3286.c0.m14

 

and a smattering of units just like these from other makers. I prefer the Viewsonic and IBMs, though. They'll come mostly as VGA but some will have DVI. Some will have one of each. Most all of them will have two inputs and some kind of switch so you can run two computers into them if you have that need. I've lost two out of the twenty in shipping from incompetent sellers. The risk on it isn't so terrible but still present. Usually, it costs more to ship them than to buy them. They're really freakin' heavy!

 

Make sure they're 2048 before you buy them. A smaller number of these 21" CRTs only go up to 1600 or so. Too often, the seller will list it as a 1600 or 1920 max res when it will actually go up to 2048 with a modern card. It's a pain. Try to look the unit up on the manufacturer's web site to get more accurate details.

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I've got a few of these:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-21-P275-FD-Trinitr...id=p3286.c0.m14

 

Two of these:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEC-ACCUSYNC-21-CRT-FL...id=p3286.c0.m14

 

and a smattering of units just like these from other makers. I prefer the Viewsonic and IBMs, though. They'll come mostly as VGA but some will have DVI. Some will have one of each. Most all of them will have two inputs and some kind of switch so you can run two computers into them if you have that need. I've lost two out of the twenty in shipping from incompetent sellers. The risk on it isn't so terrible but still present. Usually, it costs more to ship them than to buy them. They're really freakin' heavy!

 

Make sure they're 2048 before you buy them. A smaller number of these 21" CRTs only go up to 1600 or so. Too often, the seller will list it as a 1600 or 1920 max res when it will actually go up to 2048 with a modern card. It's a pain. Try to look the unit up on the manufacturer's web site to get more accurate details.

 

Thanks.

 

And you use these for color correction?

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Thanks.

 

And you use these for color correction?

 

Sure. Obviously, they're not the best for timing. But, if you're broke, they're better than an LCD monitor and capable of better resolutions than SD monitors. They have to be tweaked and fiddled with about as much as anything else you'd use. So, it's not like there's a significant compromise in using them. Especially at the price.

 

They tend to randomly favor green or blue phosphors even in the exact same model number. I don't know why it is like this. Getting them to match when side-by-side can be a bit of a challenge.

 

They are big and heavy. They take a strong surface just to hold them up. A chipboard table top will bow under the weight. I put them by the pair on one inch plywood. Even that eventually warped a little over time. They eat a lot of juice compared to LCDs. They also put out a lot of heat. I've had all eight stations running (16 21" CRTs and 8 mid-towers) in the dead of winter and had to open an exterior door to vent off some of the heat they produced. The county's power coop had to come out and hang a new transformer just to compensate for the power they draw. I had to install a 2/0, 200 amp feed line and breaker box just for the computer room.

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Interesting idea. I wonder how would a Matrox MXO work with a DV-I CRT. I know it works wonders with a DVI LCD panel like the Apple cinema displays and there are a lot of colorists using this combo out there.

 

It's all about either accuracy or predictability. Accuracy is better, of course. Predictability is usually cheaper. Since you will have to re-tweak for every anticipated output anyway, both accuracy and predictability get quirky. Timing for DVD output is a different thing from timing for film output. Actually, every little change in output will change the settings on any color timing rig. This is a topic that comes up from time to time, here. Even the best post and lab guys that frequent this forum have no quick and certain answers. LUTs will help. Every post house will arrive at a set of pre-tested LUTs to make tweaking for a given output faster. Then, they will all have their own in-house fixes to various problems.

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  • 4 months later...

One of the biggest issues is calibration and matching the image you are viewing to the final deliverable.

 

I've used a lot of different monitors/projectors for grading, but spend a lot of time making sure the calibration is accurate first - and some monitors just can't be calibrated accurately to the final deliverable format - which is still 'film' in many cases.

 

Have a look here:

 

http://www.lightillusion.com/usingluts.htm

 

I also have found that single 'dark chip' projectors can be a near perfect match to the larger D-Cinema ones, and use them a lot for DI grading - I especially like the ProjectionDesign ones...

 

Steve

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One of the biggest issues is calibration and matching the image you are viewing to the final deliverable.

 

Well yes.

 

But the thing is, this isn't often done with any degree of exactness, even at the highest of high levels, and if it is it's almost always reliant on eyeball tweaking with a locpro in the room which you could just as well do with any display you liked.

 

At the vastly lower levels being discussed here, it's often acceptable to end up with a result that looks good, if not precisely identical to what we were previously looking at. Of course this is a matter of degree and expectation, but I've seen stuff graded on Dell TFTs (which to be fair are probably among the least-unreasonable). Did it look exactly like it did on screen? Well, no, but it was perfectly usable.

 

P

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and if it is it's almost always reliant on eyeball tweaking with a locpro in the room which you could just as well do with any display you liked.

 

At the vastly lower levels being discussed here, it's often acceptable...

 

I'm seriously hoping the majority of people on this forum are not going to agree with you here...

 

It is not at all difficult to 'best match' any monitor to the final delivery display format with a LUT, and get the best you can. To simply say 'this will never match' and not even try is a joke.

 

A light box with a selection of good on-aim prints is a good way to start, and then build a LUT to get the best match possible.

 

There are also a number of free LUTs available HERE to get you started.

 

There really is no excuse for not having the best calibration you can for the given equipment to have.

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I really don't care if people agree with me or not, it'll remain true!

 

To simply say 'this will never match' and not even try is a joke.

 

Did I suggest that?

 

Do the best you can, but if you're grading on Johnny Random Computer Monitor, it is going to be off, perhaps considerably off, regardless of your touching enthusiasm for getting it right. If you're not Universal Studios, that might be sort of acceptable, but either way there's really not a hell of a lot you can do about it.

 

Would you prefer that people simply didn't try to grade short films at all, becaue a carefully-set-up TFT is the best most of them are ever likely to get.

 

P

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