Mitchell Yount Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I recently shot a Music Video for an artist in Detroit "Johnny Saxx" for his single "Take Me Away". My DP (Mark Archer, DelPadre Productions) and I had a long discussion about the RED ONE digital camera opposed to 35mm film. At first the idea of a digital workflow with the same quality and apperance as 35mm film sounded, well perfect. No more $900 an hour for devloping, no digital transfers, no fear of bad film and errors in devlopment, just digital pure digital, safe. But then after some research and discussions with editiors I soon relised that what seemed too good to be true actually was. The workflow presented more problems then I could imagine. I had to stay in budget, which was my biggest problem bacuase every day a new thing came up with workflow. First, we wanted to keep costs down and edirting more smooth and less time constricting by shooting in 2K opposed to 4K. Made sence, right? Nope, because when you shoot 2K opposed to 4K it crops the image, it does not just "squeeze" it. So we would loose half our focal leanth, half our image. We shot a scene in a 50X90 stage and we tried to shoot in 2K but even in a 50X90 stage it was too tight, we had to shoot 4K, obvisally raising our edit time and budget. In trems of edit time, I haer rumors of 14 hour remders and other crazy stuff like that. All I can do now is hope that the final edit is done within the original planned 2.5 week edit. The quality was gerat, I hooked up a 52" monitor to the RED and I was shocked! AMAZING. aND THAT WAS A raw image, can't wait for the color garde screen shots. Ill post them when I get them. The video will premire before halloween. I have attached a link for Flickr set photos. Let me know what you think of the set photos and whatever else. Set Photos (MitchWhy Flickr Stream) MitchWhy MySpace Artists MySpace MitchWhy Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lowe Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I hate to tell you, Mitch, but the fact that you were planning to shoot this at 2K without realizing that it would result in a crop factor on your lenses tells me that you simply did not do your homework in advance of the shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Simpson Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 have you been living in a cave for the last 2 years? =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) I recently shot a Music Video for an artist in Detroit "Johnny Saxx" for his single "Take Me Away". My DP (Mark Archer, DelPadre Productions) and I had a long discussion about the RED ONE digital camera opposed to 35mm film. At first the idea of a digital workflow with the same quality and apperance as 35mm film sounded, well perfect. No more $900 an hour for devloping, no digital transfers, no fear of bad film and errors in devlopment, just digital pure digital, safe. But then after some research and discussions with editiors I soon relised that what seemed too good to be true actually was. The workflow presented more problems then I could imagine. I had to stay in budget, which was my biggest problem bacuase every day a new thing came up with workflow. First, we wanted to keep costs down and edirting more smooth and less time constricting by shooting in 2K opposed to 4K. Made sence, right? Nope, because when you shoot 2K opposed to 4K it crops the image, it does not just "squeeze" it. So we would loose half our focal leanth, half our image. We shot a scene in a 50X90 stage and we tried to shoot in 2K but even in a 50X90 stage it was too tight, we had to shoot 4K, obvisally raising our edit time and budget. In trems of edit time, I haer rumors of 14 hour remders and other crazy stuff like that. All I can do now is hope that the final edit is done within the original planned 2.5 week edit. The quality was gerat, I hooked up a 52" monitor to the RED and I was shocked! AMAZING. aND THAT WAS A raw image, can't wait for the color garde screen shots. Ill post them when I get them. The video will premire before halloween. I have attached a link for Flickr set photos. Let me know what you think of the set photos and whatever else. Set Photos (MitchWhy Flickr Stream) MitchWhy MySpace Artists MySpace MitchWhy Director Shooting on the RED digital resulted in a last minuite budget decrease. Shooting digital had not even crossed my mind untill 3 days before the first shoot day. Thanks for the post. Check out the set photos. MitchWhy Director Edited October 6, 2008 by MitchWhy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 have you been living in a cave for the last 2 years? =p Haha seems so. Check out the set photos. MitchWhy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tim Terner Posted October 6, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Haha seems so. Check out the set photos. MitchWhy Have done, they're not too interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Have done, they're not too interesting Um ok, well way to support a fellow filmmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tim Terner Posted October 6, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 6, 2008 Um ok, well way to support a fellow filmmaker. Heh. nice reply Mitch ;-), best o' luck to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Heh. nice reply Mitch ;-), best o' luck to you and you too Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 USEFUL INFO ANYONE!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) Ya.. QUIT DOUBLE POSTING! What about that do you not understand? Edited October 6, 2008 by David Rakoczy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Rogers Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 After looking at a few of your pictures I'm wondering why you were running with the eyebrow and side flags when it looks like you totally didn't need them (adding more weight than needed for your jib) and also the extra part of the top handle that is worthless when you have the extension installed. Didn't really find anything interesting in the pictures (not trying to be mean, but white cync work is kinda boring.) Although, I wish other white people would realize that they really shouldn't try their hand at rap music. Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Adrian Sierkowski Posted October 7, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 It's hard to give useful information, all in all. I mean you lay out what you shot with, but honestly, I don't give a damn. Instead, I'd like to know why you shot it the way you did. Why a jib arm? Why the RED (aside from just budget, i mean you could have used other digital or HD systems). Why the look ? That being said; I tend to agree, white cyc is pretty boring. It is very difficult to hold a video together with just cyc unless the performer and song are fantastic. The only time I can think where I was interested by the "white abyss," was the film "The Perfect Human." It's important to also keep this in mind in terms of when you go to edit, that you'll probably be making more cuts than you think. You speak of grading; where do you plan on doing your grade? Best luck though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 I wish other white people would realize that they really shouldn't try their hand at rap music. Matthew And this means? what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Will post finished video before Halloween. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Fritzshall Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 And this means? what? It means that we're all racist against white people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 It means that we're all racist against white people. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Keith Mottram Posted October 7, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 7, 2008 I'm just stunned that you need two and a half weeks to edit a video! By the end of the last season I was editing an entire episode of Live From Abbey Road in under two weeks. Is your editor Steven Hawking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 I'm just stunned that you need two and a half weeks to edit a video! By the end of the last season I was editing an entire episode of Live From Abbey Road in under two weeks. Is your editor Steven Hawking? Im not editing it. My editior, who is a professional, from what I understand, says that the RED footage is hard to work with. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Achterberg Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Shooting on the RED digital resulted in a last minuite budget decrease. Shooting digital had not even crossed my mind untill 3 days before the first shoot day. Thanks for the post. Check out the set photos. MitchWhy Director On your myspace, your blog states that you are "Now Using the Red Camera for High Budget Productions" Your DP could have suggested to shoot with S16 format Lenses so you could shoot in 2k Mode and keep wider viewing angles. Also, you need to use your spell check. One or two words spelled incorrectly is ok, not every other word. thats really bad. Last Minute Budget decrease? At 18 you are lucky to be shooting on the Red. Don't sound too demanding yet. It's quite Obvious you are new to all this camera stuff. Just try to sound a bit more humble about it, and believable that 35mm was even legitimately considered. Not just thought of. "No more $900 an hour for devloping, no digital transfers, no fear of bad film and errors in devlopment," lol, you pullin my leg right? Developing is charged Hourly? I've avoided bad film by buying through legitimate channels and handling the light sensitive material accordingly, and luckily never had any errors during development (god forbid) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 [ "No more $900 an hour for devloping, no digital transfers, no fear of bad film and errors in devlopment," lol, you pullin my leg right? Developing is charged Hourly? I've avoided bad film by buying through legitimate channels and handling the light sensitive material accordingly, and luckily never had any errors during development (god forbid) Per hour of film shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Andrew Koch Posted October 8, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 8, 2008 At first the idea of a digital workflow with the same quality and apperance as 35mm film sounded, well perfect. MitchWhy Director Of course as you discovered the workflow is not perfect. But I just want to clarify something. The RED is absolutely NOT the same quality and appearance as 35mm film. I won't start a tired old "which is better, film or digital" debate here. All I am saying is that they are different. They are both tools and they produce significantly different results. Things beyond resolution and depth of field. These cameras handle color rendition differently and have different dynamic ranges among other things. These things significantly impact the look of a project. I thought I would bring this up because I just read a very inaccurate article in Wired magazine last month about the RED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the posts. Edited October 8, 2008 by Mitchell Yount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Yount Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Of course as you discovered the workflow is not perfect. But I just want to clarify something. The RED is absolutely NOT the same quality and appearance as 35mm film. I won't start a tired old "which is better, film or digital" debate here. All I am saying is that they are different. They are both tools and they produce significantly different results. Things beyond resolution and depth of field. These cameras handle color rendition differently and have different dynamic ranges among other things. These things significantly impact the look of a project. I thought I would bring this up because I just read a very inaccurate article in Wired magazine last month about the RED Yes I also read that article. Even I noticed something wasn't right. The only thing I worry about film is you dont get to see exactally how an image will look before you burn it onto film, this is why i lean toward digital, I feel more safe bacause I can see EXACTALLY what I get befoere I hit "record". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Rakoczy Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) The only thing I worry about film is you dont get to see exactally how an image will look before you burn it onto film, this is why i lean toward digital, I feel more safe bacause I can see EXACTALLY what I get befoere I hit "record". - Mitchell Yount *Note to all upcoming Directors. Find a real DP and you'll let that concern go... with a decent Color Tap/ Monitor and a real DP you won't be thinking about this. Since you won't be concentrating on 'cinematography' (because you will have covered all that with your DP in pre-production), instead, you can concentrate on doing your own job 'directing'... then you won't have to worry about your DP having to become the Director, which, he/ she will do (if necessary) to salvage the shoot. Because he is there for himself. Make no mistake. The DP is not going to go there (paid or otherwise) and not do any less than the best work they can... demanding the best from their Crew... and from You... I know I don't walk on the Set expecting to waste time just going through the motions.. I expect to create something magical. That does not always happen but we are there to do a job (for the Producer $) and I am going to make it the best I can make it even if it means railroading over a clueless Director. If I am shooting that Show my Name and Rep is on the line and that is something DPs take very seriously. Mitchell, no one for a minute believes someone paid you $1,200/ hour for 32 hours, but for this story's sake let's assume for some strange reason someone wanted to just throw money away because they, also, have no clue... the best thing you could have done with your portion was fly in a Top Music Video DP from LA and given him a 35mm Camera... have him Show you how it's done... with the dailies alone you'd probably already have two or three gigs booked by today... Edited October 8, 2008 by David Rakoczy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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