Career advice please?

[David Rakoczy]

Benson is way off the mark.

 

I became a Cinematographer after Gaffing.. no Camera Operating, Pulling Focus or Loading Mags. Also, I received my first 'real' 35mm Feature, which was an HBO World Premiere with Malcolm McDowell and Robert Patrick, based on my work in Super 16... shooting Shorts no less!

 

There are numerous other incorrect assumptions Benson has stated but I will let Mr. Boddiington continue his good work.

 

btw Benson, I also have been doing this for over 25 years and have 1st Unit DP'd four Features for HBO... and countless other Projects...

 

Benson, the length of your post in no way indicates your accuracy...

Edited October 20, 2008 by David Rakoczy

[Benson Marks]

Finally some thing we can both agree on, you are "clueless." Agreed.

 

Damn!! I'm back to debating some kid again!!

 

Tim please ban me, I can't stop :D

 

R,

 

Thanks for mocking my personality Rich! By the way, I saw your imdb page and what are all those movies you've been on? Not very good ones, I see.

 

All you cinematographers just don't get it.

 

You took my post entirely out of context. I'm basically trying to tell him the best way to get in the business, while at the same time giving him a lot of experience at the same time! Didn't you people find out that cinematographer who took that route will have been in almost 100 movies in only 10-12 years? Somehow, no matter how many years of experience you've all had, you just don't get it.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Yes, but David, we all know that your S16 stuff just "fooled" production into thinking it was 35! :P (wishing you the best and jealous of the Florida weather right now).

 

Also, I just wanted to add, that it may be "better," to come up as a gaffer. Cameras are constantly evolving, yes, but essentially they do the same thing, the record an image- so for all cameras, you turn them on, frame, focus, and hit a button.

Lighting, I feel, is a much more complex thing to understand. The way it emotes and informs the frame. The way it works (ok, yes, you turn it on and boom, there's light in this location,) on the viewer's mind. .. well for me at least it has always held a lot of magic. Plus, Gaffing, you really learn what light can do what where and when. This is vitally important later on not just when you're on set, but also when you're ordering your light for the shoot. Just my opinion and I in no way want to belittle ACing.. Pulling focus really is an artform, and as the complexity of camera systems increases, well, it just stands as a testimonial to the ability of the camera department (and operating, c'mon, that's an amazing thing to witness a great cam op do!)

[David Rakoczy]

Thanks ^_^

 

I could not agree more with you Adrian regarding Gaffing.

 

ACing takes a special breed of Human..God Bless the Focus Pullers!

 

Cameras are (generally) just Lenses, Stocks, Filters and Stops.. and of course Post. I felt I would be better served learning how to use mood defining Lighting techniques as I knew I would have someone to deal with the Camera. If I knew what Stock I wanted and what Lens & filter Package I wanted to enhace Post, well, the rest is Lighting. So I came up through Lighting & Grip. I never Loaded a Mag until I bought my SR2 5 years ago... by that time I was 20 years in the biz and had DP'd a ton! I would rather know Lighting heading into a career in Cinematography. There are many 1st ACs moving into DPing that can only shoot when their favorite Gaffer is available to Light the Show FOR them... not good! One of the best experiences I had was Operating Silk Stalkings for a Season... man, learned a TON on blocking on that Show.. 8 - 13 pages a DAY and no monitor allowed on Set!!!! That will get you up to speed real fast!

Edited October 20, 2008 by David Rakoczy

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Jesus, that certainly will make sure you're on the ball.

My big operating experience was a fight scene in 12 hours all hand-held. . . also a 25 pg short script, again all hand-held in 2 days all on the SR3, when I first got her. Most important thing I learned was "man, i need some kind of shoulder pad for this" :lol:

[Bernhard Zitz]

I'm 20 years old, which I know isn't old, but is it too late to switch over to a career so completely different than what I've been doing for so long? I have absolutely no experience, no coursework (except for that 1 class), and I've already got a future in research lined up. Am I crazy to even think about switching?

 

Heyhey,

 

you also could ask if it's to early to switch. I started film-school at the age of 25, before that I studied different stuff at university but never had the patience till a graduate. Now I have a film-school degree and it's pretty hard to earn a living in a town without film industry.

 

Having a Phd in sciences isn't a bad thing, even if you want to do films later. If you're already pursuing your studies in science, why don't do it to the end? A descent university-degree might help you admittance to a renowned film-school or help you to get a scholarship or simply proof that you're a smart guy who is able to work.

 

If making moving pictures and working on film-sets is your passion, but you're hesitating, I'd do it as a hobby or summer-job during your PhD and then decide what you want.

 

Just 2cents from my modest experience (I'm not a DP), a job in the lightning-department might be a good starting point for a future DP, after all it's much more about light and shadows than about loading and focus-pulling.

 

cheers, Bernhard

[Guest]

I saw your imdb page and what are all those movies you've been on? Not very good ones, I see.

 

Do you really want to go down this road? You can probably guess what my reply would be.

 

As for the rest of your comments.....not going to bother.

 

R,

[Benson Marks]

Do you really want to go down this road? You can probably guess what my reply would be.

 

As for the rest of your comments.....not going to bother.

 

R,

 

You reap what you sow, Rich. You mocked me and I mocked you.

 

Now, can we just get back to helping poor mi mo out on his problem, please?

[David Rakoczy]

That certainly will make sure you're on the ball.-Adrian

 

Yep, seven straight months five days a week on a Gear Head, in charge of Eyelines, Cheats etc, etc, etc... it was a fantastic learning experience! Every time the Script Super came running to the Camera with a problem with my set-up, I just over-road them and shot. There was never a problem with the blocking. That experience was/ is priceless!

 

Benson, I believe Mr. Boddington is in a much better spot to assist with the original post. A virus has been detected in your advice...

 

Just want to give a shout out to Karl.. hope you are having a great day!

Edited October 20, 2008 by David Rakoczy

[Will Earl]

...but that doesn't mean I'm a clueless loser whose opinion should be avoided all the time.

 

No of course not, but your opinion is worth more if it's from experience - even if that experience is limited to film-school or short-films you've made at home, you don't need to have spent 50 years in the industry to give good advice.

 

Look, I still know the basics of what a cinematographer does (See that big post I made.), and I still know how the filmmaking process is done.

 

Many experienced camera people would disagree with a lot of what you wrote. When I started out of film-school thought I had a fair idea of how things were done in the real world - even when I was starting out doing VFX for low-budget films, I thought I knew how things were done at places like ILM and Weta. It wasn't until I actually started working on big feature films that I realised how little I knew about how things work in the film industry.

 

OK, so I'm more interested in being a writer/director, which backs up my point that some directors are clueless when it comes to cinematography. Now what do you think of that?

 

Sure, some directors aren't that technical when it comes to cinematography - that's one of the areas where they'll rely on the DP to help them out. But most of them are clued in enough to get across what they want out of a shot.

[Benson Marks]

Alright. If none of you expert cinematographers will let me take my advice, I guess I'll give mi mo another option.

 

Go to Dov S.S. Simens 2-day film school. Alumni of that class include Quentin Tarantino, Matthew Vaughn, Kirk Jones, Mark Archer, Philippa Braithwaite, Guy Ritchie, Chris Nolan; Numerous Sundance, Cannes, and Toronto festival winners' writers; and cinematographers of films like Blade, Mortal Kombat, and X-Men. Other alumni include musicians like Michael Jackson, Queen Latifah, and Roland Best who wanted to cross over into film, and actors like Sinbad, Valerie Bertinelli, Malcolm-Jamal Warner, and Will Smith who wanted to take control of their careers.

 

The film school costs only $400 compared to the thousands of dollars spent on 4 year film schools.

 

If you want to enroll in this film school, go to www.webfilmschool.com.

 

There are other ways to enroll as well. You can buy Dov's book "From Reel to Deal" for only $20-30 or you could buy the DVD film school or go on the web film school for the exact same price.

 

I hope you find this to be a better opinion than the one I gave out. If you do enroll, good luck.

[Benson Marks]

Alright. If none of you expert cinematographers will let me take my advice, I guess I'll give mi mo another option.

 

Go to Dov S.S. Simens 2-day film school. Alumni of that class include Quentin Tarantino, Matthew Vaughn, Kirk Jones, Mark Archer, Philippa Braithwaite, Guy Ritchie, Christopher Nolan; Numerous Sundance, Cannes, and Toronto festival winners' writers; and cinematographers of films like Blade, Mortal Kombat, and X-Men. Other alumni include musicians like Michael Jackson, Queen Latifah, and Roland Best who wanted to cross over into film, and actors like Sinbad, Valerie Bertinelli, Malcolm-Jamal Warner, and Will Smith who wanted to take control of their careers.

 

The film school costs only $400 compared to the thousands of dollars spent on 4 year film schools.

 

If you want to enroll in this film school, go to www.webfilmschool.com.

 

There are other ways to enroll as well. You can buy Dov's book "From Reel to Deal" for only $20-30 or you could buy the DVD film school or go on the web film school for the exact same price.

 

I hope you find this to be a better opinion than the one I gave out. If you do enroll, good luck.

[Adrian Sierkowski]

A shot out, really David? what is this TRL :lol:

 

Mi Mo. Film studies is a good idea, though what form that takes is immaterial. If you can get on a set, then get on a set and save money on the film school b/s. Read up as much as you can, ask questions, and "play," on your own dime when you can (stills, Super8mm, DV, whatever.) Learn the Discipline of being a DP and the discipline needed to shoot well and keep at it.

[David Rakoczy]

Hey, I am having a fun day! :P

[Michele Peterson]

If you're close to getting a degree at any level, I'd say finish that while you are starting your cinematography career. Just in case you find out after your first few film jobs that this isn't what you really want, you'll have something to go back to. Any degree is better than none. Start taking whatever decent jobs you can find. It takes awhile to get enough connections to be working full time, so that will give you time to finish school. You can also take a few film, TV or journalism classes if there are any at your school.

 

 

You must have a good understand of science if you are pursuing a PhD. Cinematography is one of the most technical crafts in film. There is a fair amount of basic math, and science you need to know in order to get the artistic/creative effect you want.

[John Brawley]

Does it really matter how much experience I have?

 

 

Yes.

 

It does when you're a directing (student ?) who hasn't directed anything and you're telling cinematographers on a cinematography board how to suck eggs.

 

You have *learned* one way that cinematographers work, but every director / DP relationship is different.

 

jb

[mi mo]

thanks for everyone's help!

[Simon Wyss]

Would Monsieur, Madame or Mademoiselle mi mo have the courtesy of declaring her or his name in full here. It is a rule to everybody, no Animal Farm and the like, alright ?