Premium Member Max Jacoby Posted October 30, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 30, 2008 No, but I think it helped spur whatever JJ is going to announce on November 13th..... which might have a major impact on this whole business. ;) Let's wait and see. Only 2 weeks away now. Oh god Tom, please spare us all these 'major impacts', 'game changer' or 'film slayer' posts, they have nothing to do with reality, it's only wishful thinking from your part. Change is something that happens slowly, over time, not from one day to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lowe Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Oh god Tom, please spare us all these 'major impacts', 'game changer' or 'film slayer' posts, they have nothing to do with reality, it's only wishful thinking from your part. Change is something that happens slowly, over time, not from one day to the next. Max, do you deny that the Canon 1D series was a "film slayer" in terms of 35mm still SLRs? Individual cameras can have "major impacts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas James Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Is Jim Jannard really offering something thats truly revolutionary ? Or is it just another camera with more pixels and higher frame rates which he thinks will make him the most profit ? When one talks to these Red fans one gets the impression that Red 4K Digital Cinema must be the ultimate IMAX experience. Jim always complains that his critics have never seen a proper 4K presentation. Well lets have a demonstration of Red 4k versus IMAX and see which format holds up on the big screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lowe Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Is Jim Jannard really offering something thats truly revolutionary ? Or is it just another camera with more pixels and higher frame rates which he thinks will make him the most profit ? When one talks to these Red fans one gets the impression that Red 4K Digital Cinema must be the ultimate IMAX experience. Jim always complains that his critics have never seen a proper 4K presentation. Well lets have a demonstration of Red 4k versus IMAX and see which format holds up on the big screen. Thomas, considering how much money Jim has burned through and how fairly he has treated his customers, the idea that he is some greedy guy out to "rake in as much as possible" from his customers just simply doesn't hold water. In terms of resolution, Red One is essentially a 3K camera. And since no one really finishes at 3K, it becomes (for most intents and purposes) a really nice 1080p/2K camera. No one on earth is claiming that 2K or 3K is anywhere near IMAX. Who is claiming that? If Epic boasts a 5K sensor, then it will be a "true 4K" camera. That only makes it about as good as 35mm after scanning. So again, no where near IMAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted October 30, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 30, 2008 In terms of resolution, Red One is essentially a 3K camera. And since no one really finishes at 3K, it becomes (for most intents and purposes) a really nice 1080p/2K camera. No one on earth is claiming that 2K or 3K is anywhere near IMAX. Who is claiming that? If Epic boasts a 5K sensor, then it will be a "true 4K" camera. That only makes it about as good as 35mm after scanning. So again, no where near IMAX. Hi, So unlikely to be the ultimate film slayer then. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Wells Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 The "film slayer" (if/when) or game changer isn't the (fill in the blank) camera, it's the DI or Digital Master. -Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arni Heimir Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Wait a minute. I don't understand. Can DSLR camera shoot 24 frames per second for unlimited time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Paul Bruening Posted October 30, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 30, 2008 Wait a minute. I don't understand. Can DSLR camera shoot 24 frames per second for unlimited time? http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091705canon_5dmarkII.asp It shoots HD onto a mini hard drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arni Heimir Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091705canon_5dmarkII.asp It shoots HD onto a mini hard drive. But wouldn't the 30 frames per second be a problem in post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Earl Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 ...shoot 24 frames per second for unlimited time? Now there's a feature! Maybe the soon to be announced announcement of the next Red camera will include this feature. Now I can really make my sci-fi roman epic with it's original running time of 3 GY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lowe Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) But wouldn't the 30 frames per second be a problem in post? I have heard that 30p is difficult to transcode to 24p. But who knows. Software becomes more and more powerful each day. The fact that Canon is not "offering" 24p points to the fact that they really don't care about their customers' needs, but rather, are motivated by trying to "protect" other products in their lineup. This is the legacy companies like Sony and Canon are saddled with. Jim Jannard claims that Red will not "hold back" technology like this in order to protect existing lines of cameras. We will soon find out if he is telling the truth, and is truly going to break this onerous legacy of screwing the customer by withholding new technology. Edited October 30, 2008 by Tom Lowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Paul Bruening Posted October 30, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 30, 2008 If theaters are going digital projection, then 24 fps becomes less of an issue. As these digital taking mediums become better and better, 24 fps will disappear altogether. See what you made me do. I'm crying. Are you happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Paul Bruening Posted October 30, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 30, 2008 You know, the technology is already on the shelf. Canon could dump all the still parts of this unit and put in 4 Digic IV processors and four RAID striped UDMA ports. That would probably do the job for onboard 4K RAW processing and storage. I figure the whole unit wouldn't be much bigger than your fist. The battery would probably be bigger. The real magic to this device is the individual processing of each pixel site. With a little more processing power added, this thing could selectively change the dynamic range of each pixel site at 30 fps. That could push the total dynamic range and latitude through the roof. As we know, range and latitude are currently the strengths of film. But, with individual pixel control... well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas James Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 The only reason for this so called 2k or 4k digital revolution has nothing to do with the search for the ultimate picture quality but rather is a way for the movie studios to save millions of dollars because they no longer have to release expensive film prints but rather release the movie in a digital format which costs them virtually nothing. This is why the movie studios themselves are subsidizing and obtaining financing to install the infrastucture of digital movie projectors because they know it will save them money in the long run. So after film prints are obsolete Kodak will become bankrupt and they will be unable to even produce film stock for cameras so this will make camera film a niche product and too expensive for practical everyday use. Also it is very true that a lot of technology is held back in order to protect the existing obsolete legacy and high end products. Jim Jannard can certainly gain an advantage by undercutting his competition and releasing higher end products at a lower cost. But in doing so Jim creates his own obsolete legacy and his own high end that he must defend so he can continue making the most profit. This is why when Scarlett was proposed it was severly crippled because it lacked interchangeable lenses so that it would not be a threat to Red One. Of course now that Jim is feeling the heat of competition from Canon and Nikon DSLR's with HD movie modes he may in fact be forced to offer Scarlet with interchangeable lenses after all. However the origianal philosophy of IMAX is different because this technology was developed for non profit groups such as museums and planetariums who wanted to showcase the highest picture quality rather than obtain the most profit. This is not to say that IMAX has not become commercialized over the years but it does prove that not all formats have to be based on profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Stephen Williams Posted October 30, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 30, 2008 So after film prints are obsolete Kodak will become bankrupt and they will be unable to even produce film stock for cameras so this will make camera film a niche product and too expensive for practical everyday use. Hi AFAIK Fuji also produces negative film, it's cheaper than Kodak as well. I don't beleive that Fuji could produce enough film to satisly world demand but I am sure they would try. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Chris Keth Posted October 30, 2008 Premium Member Share Posted October 30, 2008 Hi, I would rather hand hold of this one. Stephen It's definitely not the camera in that photo that I'm interested in. ;) At least it's not as cheesy as the steadi-cam print ad where the person's flying a mitchell BNC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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