Replacement for HDV?

Matthew Buick · October 29, 2008

Hi.

With HDV camcorders being well and truly phased out, certainly in the consumer market, and AVCHD not a professional codec does anyone know what will be replacing HDV?

Thanks!

Phil Rhodes · October 30, 2008

HDV wasn't particularly a "professional codec" either.

Matthew Buick · October 30, 2008

No, but it's a lot better than AVCHD.

Phil Rhodes · October 30, 2008

Oddly enough it's a problem facing both the consumer and professional markets.

There are a million and one entirely reasonable ways of storing video as computer data, and it seems that the manufacturers are determined to try every single one in the frantic race to dominance. What they don't seem to get is that anything that doesn't have wide support is doomed to failure.

There are so many levels on which this is being got wrong, from the problems of physical media compatibility to file layouts and compression algorithms, and the sad fact is that all that's being got wrong really is that they're all different. Regardless of physical media you'd have thought they'd have got some sort of standards sorted for the data part of it, so you could at least just buy the company's proprietory reader. And no, MXF is not part of the solution to this, it encompasses a large part of the problem (Bruce Devlin, I'm looking at you).

It's an issue that exists right up to the stratosphere. Manufacturers such as Dalsa and Arri are building camera systems that export bayer data straight off the chip, as a mosaic, which requires considerable extra processing even to be marginally viewable. To me, this is building half a camera, and it really puts a lot of work on the post people that I really consider is the responsibility of the camera manufacturer. This is such a far-reaching implication that I have to wonder if the post houses aren't somehow on board with this, trying to ensure that the labs have new jobs to which they can transition.

So it's a conceptually simple but simultaneously vast and intricate problem of standardisation, and I hope and assume that this is inevitable with a new technology. With any luck, all we're seeing is an industry thrashing around frantically while trying to get used to some new paradigms (and it's not often that word is justifiably deployed, but I think it is here).

What alarms me particularly is that, as has happened before, the clear need for standardisation has provoked the mass deployment of huge numbers of mutually-incompatible standards. On this very forum an employee of Panasonic defended the design of their P2 filesystem with eloquent, if ill-informed, desperation. This provoked my sneaking suspicion that in times like these, companies will make for any standard in a storm, and in fact have a disturbing tendency to grab the nearest box marked "STANDARD" and adopt its contents with distressingly little forethought or fact-checking.

In the meantime all we can try and do is be compatible with as broad a base as possible.

P

Matthew Buick · November 2, 2008

Perhaps an AVCHD camcorder that could record uncompressed or as a series of RAW images or to some more sophisticated codec would suffice as a replacement. At least until everyone can sit down and agree on something for once. As long as it doesn't have a crappy rolling shutter and is 1920 x 1080p that's good enough for me.

Walter Graff · November 3, 2008

Hi.

With HDV camcorders being well and truly phased out, certainly in the consumer market, and AVCHD not a professional codec does anyone know what will be replacing HDV?

Thanks!

Who told you HDV was being phased out? HDV is still one of numerous choices for sub $10k cameras. That is not changing anytime soon for HDV manufatuers.

Andrew McCarrick · November 9, 2008

Well you know Panasonic has the HMC150... It's a AVCHD Prosumer camera. They're calling it the replacement to the DVX100.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5759..._Camcorder.html

I'd like to see what kind of image it produces though.

Matthew Buick · December 19, 2008

Who told you HDV was being phased out? HDV is still one of numerous choices for sub $10k cameras. That is not changing anytime soon for HDV manufatuers.

When I said HDV was being phased out I meant in the consumer/prosumer sector, HV30/HC9 sort of area, not the four or five grand monsters. They want the best images they can get. The consumer market is more bothered about convenience. I and many other young DP's can't afford much more than the HV30, and we want the best video we can get. If there isn't going to be a HV40 or HDR-HC10 it's rather worringing. I have yet to see any AVCHD footage that would tempt me away from my little HDV.

Speaking of AVCHD I imagine that Panasonic will produce pretty decent footage. It'll certainly outshine the HV30, but I doubt it'll be used by low budget filmakers. I guessing it's aimed more for the ENG market.