Jump to content

neon close ups


walg

Recommended Posts

i recently shot some close ups of neon signs in a dark studio on 35mm kodak 5274. we used a fries mitchell with a nikon 35mm prime on F5.6 - 8.

 

as the neon passed through the edge of frame we got quite a severe smearing effect almost like there was vaseline on the lens which of course there was not.

 

luckily the rushes were repaired but it cost time and money.

 

the following day we reshot as a test, 2-3 stops under and over and with a wrattan 2e filter which i was told may control uv light.

 

we got the same smearing result every time.

 

can anyone shed any light on whats happening and what i am doing wrong?

 

is this a problem with shooting neon close up?

 

thanks for reading

 

john wenman

motiom control camera assistant.

www.onepost.tv

Edited by walg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

Did you check to see if your lens was clean, front and back, and the filter was good? If so, it could just be the way this Nikon lens handles flare. Did you try a different lens to see if the problem went away? Did you try not using the filter to test that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

I guess you could see the effect thru the VF, and didn't discover it on the dailies... If not so, it might have happen further up on the process chain...

 

It sounds like a reflection to me... Didn't that occure especially on the edges of the frame or was it on the entire frame ?

 

Did you use a filter ? I guess not as you were shooting tungsten in a studio... Highlights sometimes occure reflections on the filter, but if you didn't use any, it might have been a reflection from the matte box. some metal parts, flat and well polished can do that, even though they're painted black (that behaves like slate or asphalt : not much reflection in almost all directions, but strong reflection in a precise direction...)

Edited by laurent.a
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi John!

 

On the projekt I´m working on right now, I´m using fluorescents a lot as practicals and as key light at the same time. I get the same smearing effect when a tube passes out of frame, but that´s just the normal flaring you would get from any light source. It`s only really bad, when it´s just out of frame, because the light is hitting the bad part of the lens, which is not used for creating the image. That´s what I think. It´s really bad with 16mm lenses like Zeiss primes and Canon Zooms, I think it was less with Cooke S4. The only solution is to get the tubes out of frame as fast as possible when you pan. In the frame there is hardly any flaring visible, becaus a fluorescent tube is not as hot as for example a light bulb.

 

Best regards!

 

Schuh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

This sounds like "gate flare" to me. Light hits the polished edge of the gate and reflects back onto the surface of the film. That's why you see it when the light source is at the edge of frame.

 

Like someone said, pan faster or very carefully black out the polished edge of the gate with some kind of paint (I'm not a camera tech so I don't know the best way to to this). You could also try using a larger gate (like "full frame" for 1.85 or 16x9) so that the gate reflection falls outside of the picture area.

 

Incidentally, I shot a whole story about neon on Betcam SP -- and didn't experience any gate flare. ;) Exposure became tricky, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks very much guys.

 

i think michael may be on the money with the gate flare theory. however we shoot 16.9 for everything here in london so shooting with a larger gate is not an option. also our camera is motion control so panning speeds are controllable only up to a certain speed.

 

i will do as you say and try blacking out the gate, maybe with some ink and try reshooting again as a test.

 

i will put a new post next week to let you know how i get on.

 

thanks again

 

john wenman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

I think it may take something more matte-finish than ink, like some kind of paint. But maybe a few coats of a good solid ink would help. But again I'm not a camera tech and wouldn't want to advise something that could compromise the performance of the camera (like getting paint on the back side of the gate where it could scratch the emulsion).

 

This sort of thing has been done before, so talk to a camera house and see if they have any advice. I remember there was some discussion of this a few years back on CML, but I have no idea what the topic was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • Premium Member
thanks very much guys.

 

i think michael may be on the money with the gate flare theory. however we shoot 16.9 for everything here in london so shooting with a larger gate is not an option. also our camera is motion control so panning speeds are controllable only up to a certain speed.

 

i will do as you say and try blacking out the gate, maybe with some ink and try reshooting again as a test.

 

i will put a new post next week to let you know how i get on.

 

thanks again

 

john wenman.

 

 

Hi John,

 

How did you get on with blacking the gate?

I remember your camera sn 298 or there abouts!

I have found that painting the gate edges with matt black spray paint, then using candle smoke to finish off. As your camera has a capping shutter and sliding mirror there could be a number of unblacked surfaces near the lens to touch up!

I know the dissolve shutter has been locked off to prevent flicker. Check that the shutter is timed and fully closed when the film is moving.

 

Cheers,

 

Stephen Williams DoP

Zurich

 

www.stephenw.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Frank Gossimier

That's really odd. I shot a whole pile of neon close up at night in Las Vegas last November. I used Kodak Vision 2 500T, and F 2.2. With a 30mm lens. 24fps.

 

I did pans, tilts, and even driving, all the shots turned out perfectly.

 

This sounds like a weird camera error, as there is nothing inherently tricky about shooting neon that I found.

 

Frank

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...