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[Ozgur Baltaoglu]

My main challenge, among some others mind you, in lighting is that I can't quite visualize what sort of lamp to place to get a certain fstop and a certain quality... I'm aware of almost all the tools and their function but when I start to light it all seems to add up and begin too look over lit (maybe I should turn everything off and start over and turn them on one at a time) I tried using photometrics and calculating footcandelas and lux but it's definetely not practical at the moment... I know expereince will solve all the problems but for now I have to find a remedy...

 

thx ALi

[David Mullen ASC]

You just named two remedies -- either experience (yours or others) or by calculation of known data.

 

Most people overlight because they don't have a clear visualization of the lighting before they start lighting. They feel the need to light the space and THEN start figuring out what the room needs.

 

You need to know what your broad strokes are going to be first. The other lights you add after that should be subtle, just to fix certain problems.

 

It's a little like chess and plotting several moves in advance.

 

Most people underlight because they either confuse the light levels of real life with what the recording system needs or they can't judge contrast well so don't realize just how much brighter their key light is compared to the ambient fill.

 

Although we've reached a point with fast film and video cameras that the light levels needed are not too far off from those of real life. Then the problem becomes one of balance, not level.

 

But the main thing is to think in simple terms with what your key light needs to do. Whether or not you end up needing twenty lights, the main impression should be of one overall lighting concept so that the viewer understands the source of the light in the scene (unless you are going for a theatrical look.) That simple lighting concept may be: "the big window is lighting the room" or "the table lamps are lighting the restaurant" or "the hallway has overhead spots". Anything that doesn't support that concept will look like clutter unless it is subtle (a subtle edge or backlight rounding off the shoulders, a subtle eyelight to get a glint in the eye, etc.)

[Michael Nash]

(maybe I should turn everything off and start over and turn them on one at a time)

 

I know expereince will solve all the problems but for now I have to find a remedy...

Another take on what David said...

 

Lighting with one light at a time will help you learn the output of a given light (set it up, meter it, modify the light with scrims or difussion, meter again), and will also show you the contribution of that light to the scene. It sounds like you're at the point where you need to build up experience with the different lighting units, so do yourself the favor of allowing yourself the time to learn.

 

Once you know a given light in a certain setup, you can start to extrapolate other setups. For example, say you find that a 1K open-face bounced into a 2'x3 bounceboard gives a key light of 2.8 at 500 ASA at a distance of 8 feet. If you need to obtain a 4.0 stop (twice as much light), then you might need a 2k instead. Or if you need a 2.0 stop you'd have to put a double scrim in the light, or maybe drop down to a 500W or 650W light, adjusting the brightness a little with the flood/spot.

 

Try the same technique for hard lights at a bigger distance. In general, if you need twice the light level (one more f-stop), you need a lamp of the same design that's twice the wattage. Or half as bright a light for one stop less. After a while you'll start to build up your "vocabulary" of lights for different setups.

 

Of course there are finer points to all this, like the difference in output between a fresnel, par, and open-face, and the difference in output between tungsten and HMI of similar wattage. And the difference in falloff between hard lights and soft lights. But try to learn one light at a time and digest the "rules" that govern the way light behaves. Stick to one type of setup for a while until you feel you've reached a certain level of competency, then try to expand by learning another type of setup. Like anything else it takes practice, and it takes time.

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

It's a simple thing, but it always helps me to take just a moment to look at how I've lit a scene. I mean really look at and understand what I'm photographing. Then I can make decisions about what other lights it might need.

 

Look at the scene through the viewfinder to find the top, bottom and sides of the frame then take a step to the side and look at the scene framing it with your hands. Use the classic palms out fingers verticle with the tips of your thumbs touching for 4:3ish frames and for widescreen hold your right hand horizontal palm in, fingers to to the left and thumb verticle, then do the exact opposite with your left hand, your thumbs will be touching the index finger of the other hand. Once in AC they called it cinematic Tai Chi, funny but it works.

 

This with a little knowledge of various fixtures can help you decide say, how "big" of a key light you need and what area of the frame it will look natural coming from.

 

Bottom line is I'm going to go with the largest fixture that's going to give me the quality I want but not be overkill for the situation. It's much easier to knock something down than change to a more powerfull fixture or put up a second one.

 

It helps to look at manufacturers data and memorize how many footcandles a fixture produces at 10 or 20 feet. You only need to memorize one figure (maybe two for spot/flood) because inverse square law will tell you what footcandles there will be at 5 or 40 or whatever feet. Then you can convert fc's into stops.

[Leon Rodriguez]

Ali, In addition to all this valuable and accurate on-set advice, I would also suggest that you plan each shot very carefully beforehand. You might even want to expand your storyboard work to include which fixtures you want and diagram them right in around or next to the frame of your storyboard drawing. This will also speed up your set-ups, giving you the time you need to use your spotmeter. Document the on-set tweaks and then you'll have lighting diagrams and the footage that they produced. That with your camera reports and lab reports will ramp up your learning curve. You'll find that you will memorize each of them and their results by project's end.

 

Of couse you'll have to judge the fine tuning by eye. Trying to design everything on set is rarely the best course of action. You may also miss the over-all thing that you want to bring to the project if you're just thinking shot to shot. Just a consideration.

[Ozgur Baltaoglu]

thank you all for your valuable input... I am actually a bit nervous because I will direct and shoot for the first time. It's quite a bit of work but it also feels liberating... I'm looking forward to a shorthand relationship with a dp someday...we'll see...