Beaulieu 4008 Rail System Options

Andries Molenaar · February 24, 2011

what if you want to remove the handle? Will any sort of rail system/matte box fit? Or at least one with the proper thread size?

Most modern video camera have very little distance between their base and the optical axis of their recording lens. Since modern rail-kits/baseplates are aimed on users of these cameras certainly several plates will be suitable for a 4008 without the handgrip. There are also risers available so getting the filterholder ank compendium in the right position should not even be a problem with the grip still in place and using a leveler like the original Beaulieu wedge.

February 25, 2011

. . . should not even be a problem with the grip still in place and using a leveler like the original Beaulieu wedge.

When fitted to my Beaulieu 4008 ZM series cameras, none of the Beaulieu leveling wedges I've tried have a base that's parallel to the optical axis of the lens.

Chris Burke · February 25, 2011

that is part of the reason I asked about not using the grip. From what I have seen, they don't really work or work well. It seems a bit more streamlined without the grip.

February 25, 2011

It seems a bit more streamlined without the grip.

You'd have to deal with the electrical components in the grip and find some other means of starting and stopping the camera, which seems a high price to pay for streamlining. In addition, the base of the camera with the grip removed isn't parallel to the optical axis of the lens, so you'd still have to fashion a wedge of some sort to level it.

Andries Molenaar · February 25, 2011

mr Brady is involved with American ciné :) According to their website. No wonder the fanatism.:)

There is nothing wrong with the original Beaulieu wedge. Nor with a DIY contraption or the Amercan Ciné thing. Just get the easy and affordable thing you want.

As said in reference to the picture of the doublehanded shoulder pod etc. Taking off the grip makes the little Beaulieu camera unusable for standard S8 filming.

Where this camera was designed for. That is indeed a bit of a shame.

BTW There is no need for perfect alignment with the lens-axis. The lens needs to be protected by the sund-hood, french flag, rear-light-seepage blocker and whatmore.

The bearer of the glass is seethrough from 0 or every other small angle. It is just that the camera needs to look through the opening of the Chrosziel or whatever rather than to the sky :)

February 26, 2011

mr Brady is involved with American ciné :) According to their website. No wonder the fanatism.:)

There is nothing wrong with the original Beaulieu wedge. Nor with a DIY contraption or the Amercan Ciné thing. Just get the easy and affordable thing you want.

As said in reference to the picture of the doublehanded shoulder pod etc. Taking off the grip makes the little Beaulieu camera unusable for standard S8 filming.

Where this camera was designed for. That is indeed a bit of a shame.

BTW There is no need for perfect alignment with the lens-axis. The lens needs to be protected by the sund-hood, french flag, rear-light-seepage blocker and whatmore.

The bearer of the glass is seethrough from 0 or every other small angle. It is just that the camera needs to look through the opening of the Chrosziel or whatever rather than to the sky :)

You're quick to dismiss the opinions of others even though it isn't clear that you have any first-hand knowledge of matters under discussion. I have an ACS rod support with which I'm very satisfied. It doesn't have the shortcomings of the other solutions mentioned in this thread and is clearly better than any other product of which I'm aware. As he has done with other customers, the maker borrowed one of my cameras to prepare rod supports for it; that's the basis of the reference at the ACS website. It doesn't warrant your characterization of me as a fanatic, but, like most who've been at this forum for any length of time, I realize you've a penchant for injecting baseless innuendo, insult, and condescension in your posts. It might be entertaining if it wasn't so predictable.

Bengt Freden · March 10, 2011

"Handle or not to handle, that is the question..."

Hi (again) to all who are wrapping their brains around this delicate little problem,

The MAIN problem, as I see it, is that there is absolutely NO SPOT on the outside of the Beaulieu 4008 camera body that is exactly level or in line with the optical axis.

Not even the base or bottom of the camera body with the handle completely removed - I noticed this already when I mounted the HASSELBLAD medium format SLR quick release plate on my Beaulieu 4008 ZMII back in 1976. But you are getting very close. If you want to obtain a perfect parallel optical axis mount, it's just a matter of adding a couple of thin washer 'shims' on your screws, between your preferred quick release plate and the rear of the underside of the camera body, making it tip very slightly forwards/down.

And Jorge, a very efficient way of switching battery power ON and OFF is by using the external Beaulieu battery cable to the small round battery box, and soldering an ON/OFF switch directly onto the cable (cutting it in two), a couple of inches below the battery adapter on the left side of the camera, where it is easily accessible with your left hand. I use an extra long cable for cold location shooting conditions here in Sweden, and keep the battery container under my thick jacket, to keep it insulated. You can even start or turn off your camera this way (with the trigger of the camera permanently in RUN position), but you cannot be sure that the shutter are returning to OPEN, when you cut the battery feed. So, you will loose a few fogged frames. But it can be handy for synch sound shooting or panning sequences, when you need your right hand on the panning handle. When I want to carry the camera and tripod on the shoulder, I just unplug the battery cord from the camera and put it in the jacket opening.

In my old photo below (2008), the 4008 camera has the Hasselblad quick release plate and it is easily mounted onto the rod assembly by just sliding/pushing it forward under the two holding clamps of the release and then locking it down. I also have a version of the Hasselblad release plate with the locking lever on the right side, if I want to access the motor axis on the left side. The German light-weight EWA (plastic) Super-8 matte box/compendium (this version has no filter holder but there is one 35mm SLR version who has) is in turn attached to the Manfrotto tripod's quick release plate on top of the fluid head. This matte box has only ONE rod, mounted to the right, which makes it a little bit unstable/wobbly.

I think that David Odell's solution with the Cavision 15mm metal rods and the small 16mm ARRI matte box, however, is the most elegant I have seen so far. At least for cameras which have had the handle permanently removed. Is it sturdy, David? And how do you mount and un-mount the camera from the rod system, or the tripod? Did you put a tripod socket directly into the bottom of the camera body, or is there a quick-release plate in the Cavison rod system?

The other very smart option, if you want to leave the original handle on the camera, is the beautifully machined ACS light-weight carbon rod system made by Seth: http://www.americancinespec.com/pages/Beaulieu.html A couple of years ago, I bought just the ACS leveling plate, which I find is the best and sturdiest attempt yet to mount the camera (WITH the handle intact) exactly level on a fluid head: http://www.americancinespec.com/pages/Beaulieulevelingplate.html

The old, cast wedges that are still available here and there (eBay, Super 8 Camera Shop.com in Gemany, etc) are no way near the precision and rigidity of Seth's machined aluminium plate. I have one of the old cast wedges and with it, the camera is leaning slightly to one side and cannot be placed flat on a table with a zoom lens. It tips over immediately.

The bottom plate of the Beaulieu camera's handle have sometimes taken a beating if they are used heavily, and is therefore occasionally not completely FLAT, which presents a problem in itself. I have bent my bottom plate very carefully down (after unscrewing it of course!) in the front 'toe' very slightly, using a bench-mounted vise, to make it more steady length-wise or forward/back.

In summary, I would say there ARE several systems out there, even if they are not exactly bought "off-the shelf", both for those who want to remove the handle and for those who want to keep it. However, you need to 'fine-tune' your complete set-up, and find parts, matte boxes, etc, that will fit well with YOUR system, which WILL require some effort and time on your behalf.

All the best from the windy North,

Bengt :)

Andries Molenaar · March 10, 2011

mr Brady, your response clearly demonstrates my observation to be spot on.

Furthermore, I do have too many personal thank yous to know that people here and there appreciate my information or personal help.

I find little wrong with neither of the original of the Beaulieu wedging accessoiries. One fits nicely in the underwater housing thanks to its rims. Or was it design-intended for that?

I doubt when the camera can stand up by itself with a zoom is an indicator of anything. I does so with original grip and Angénieux zoom too. It is quite popular to do so when it is on display :)

No soldering is needed for a power switch when the grip is taken off. When the switch wiring is fixed to permanent on. Just plug in a remote-control on the 2.5mm connector and use that as power switch.

There is one set of the EWA compendium ( East West agency, DDR product) which is specially configured for the 4008 cameras. It takes filters and masks too. No wedge needed although the grip-screw-on holder is not too strong and on a tripod may be a bit too flimsy.

If you want a full matte box with french flag on rods, get one from Bollywood, India. Plenty on eBay.

Edited March 10, 2011 by Andries Molenaar

Bengt Freden · March 10, 2011

David,

Is this by any chance the Cavision rod system that you bought? http://www.cavision.com/rods/minidv.htm

I noticed, by the way, that the tubes are not aluminium as I sumised but carbon fiber here as well - light and perfectly straight. Are you happy with this set-up now that you have had it for a couple of years?

Was there room, by the way, for a tripod socket directly in the bottom of the camera housing? I like very much that the underside of the Cavision plate has many tripod sockets and thus gives you several choices (four) of balancing your camera, zoom or prime lens, and matte box: http://www.cavision.com/rods/rearbracketbottom.htm -some tripod heads also do have long slits for the tripod screw, which gives you added balancing possibilities forwards or backwards.

Furthermore, I read at the Cavision site that the Mini-DV rod system above had no horizontal adjustment. Did you have to take this into consideration when you determined where to place your tripod socket (if any) on the camera? So many questions . . .

All the best from Stockholm,

Bengt :)

David Odell · March 11, 2011

David,

Is this by any chance the Cavision rod system that you bought? http://www.cavision.com/rods/minidv.htm

I noticed, by the way, that the tubes are not aluminium as I sumised but carbon fiber here as well - light and perfectly straight. Are you happy with this set-up now that you have had it for a couple of years?

Was there room, by the way, for a tripod socket directly in the bottom of the camera housing? I like very much that the underside of the Cavision plate has many tripod sockets and thus gives you several choices (four) of balancing your camera, zoom or prime lens, and matte box: http://www.cavision.com/rods/rearbracketbottom.htm -some tripod heads also do have long slits for the tripod screw, which gives you added balancing possibilities forwards or backwards.

Furthermore, I read at the Cavision site that the Mini-DV rod system above had no horizontal adjustment. Did you have to take this into consideration when you determined where to place your tripod socket (if any) on the camera? So many questions . . .

All the best from Stockholm,

Bengt :)

Hi Bengt!!!

That Cavision rod is the one I bought. And regarding the carbon fiber material I think it's very convinient since I also use the camera handheld (photo taken 2009), but the weight isnt very well centered:

and the carbon fiber is well matched in the overal camera color...

I use the tripod socket directly under the Cavison tripod plate. Don't know otherwise, but I also have a metal plate that holds the handel in place, as you can se in the abow photo.

The horizontal alignment was perfect. The only problem was that I wanted to get the camera a few milimeters lower the center the Arri matte box. But I can live with that.

Its nice to hear from you Bengt! I will post my latest build soon, a Beaulieu safari M3 with Cavision handels directly under the camera housing.

Al the best!

Edited March 11, 2011 by David Odell

March 12, 2011

mr Brady, your response clearly demonstrates my observation to be spot on.
Furthermore, I do have too many personal thank yous to know that people here and there appreciate my information or personal help.

You’ve given no indication that you’ve ever used the American Cinematographic Systems rod support and yet you’ve been relentless in your disparagement of it. What is the basis of that disparagement? Do you believe that the cheapness of a solution overrides all other considerations? I’ve tried some of these apparently cheaper solutions in the past – the Beaulieu wedges, grip removal, and EWA compendium – and found them less than satisfactory. I’m not the only one who’s found the ACS product a better solution.

I’ve followed your contributions long enough to know you’re just as likely to pontificate about matters of which you have no first-hand knowledge (and provide misinformation) as to offer useful information. I think this is one of those instances.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Glenn Brady

Mako Koiwai · June 4, 2013

You want the Manfrotto 503, not the 501. The 503 has counter springs so your camera/tripod won't fall over if you step away from it without locking the tilt. Not If, When ...

But those inexpensive Manfrottos are really not very good ...