Mixing 5D Mark II 1080p with Z1U 1080i footage

Ted Hinkle · February 15, 2009

ny suggestions on mixing footage shot on 5D Mark II 1080p with Z1U 1080i footage? Can you mix 1080i with 1080p or is there a way of downconverting 1080p to 1080i? Or Do I just need to get the Z5U or Z7U to mix footage with the 5D MII?

Scott Bullock · February 15, 2009

ny suggestions on mixing footage shot on 5D Mark II 1080p with Z1U 1080i footage? Can you mix 1080i with 1080p or is there a way of downconverting 1080p to 1080i? Or Do I just need to get the Z5U or Z7U to mix footage with the 5D MII?

The latest version of Final Cut might be your best bet since you are able to put various formats into the same timeline and it has a number of different codecs to choose from.

Ted Hinkle · February 16, 2009

The latest version of Final Cut might be your best bet since you are able to put various formats into the same timeline and it has a number of different codecs to choose from.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've also learned from further research that it's quite the process just uploading footge from the 5D Mark II even onto FCP. I think I'm gonna keep things simple and not even try for a while. I was considering buying a Mark II, but I'm gonna wait for a while until the kinks get worked out and it's easier to edit and upload footage from it. Not that Canon didn't doo a good job... the footage I've seen looks amazing.

I wonder wether Canon willl do something to make it easier or If better software/support will come from Premiere or FCP or someone else. It just seems there are too many hoops to jump through to make it work.

I wonder if Nikon will ever make a camera that can do 1080p? That would be sweet! If so I hope I can afford it!!!

Scott Bullock · February 16, 2009

I'm kind of waiting for Nikon to do the same thing. I almost purchased a Nikon D90 but when Canon came out with their DSLR that will do 1080p I figured it would only be a matter of time before Nikon came out with one. This may have happened already with the Nikon D3X but I haven't really checked the features on it too closely as its $8,000 price tag is forcing me to keep it at arm's length.

Oliver Christoph Kochs · February 23, 2009

Mixing footage especially interlaced and progressive can look ugly if not processed properly. From my experience here are a couple of tips: For de-interlacing i recommend mpeg streamclip (freeware for mac and pc based on quicktime) does very usable adaptive deinterlacing. Note that it's better to conform the framerate rather than converting it. The latter results in blending the frames like in eg. pulldowns. To be continued...

Ted Hinkle · March 1, 2009

I think if I wind up using the 5d MarkII I'm just going to rent the Z7U so that I can shoot 1080p and save the hassle of mixing 1080i with 1080p.... Or perhaps I should rent a Canon camera that shoots 1080p.

Here's the reason... I like the idea of using the 5D mark II for artistic shots and angles, however I need a solid camera that I can shoot at the same time something safe that I can pick up all the action with including use of a good with a wirless mic. Then later in post mix the footage together.

So the real question is what pro video camera would work best for mixing footage w the 5D MarkII or perhaps it's just a matter of preferance.

Ideally I just want a 5D markII that gives me complete apereture/focus/ISO control or auto without any workarounds and that has XLR inputs... anything else I should ask Santa Clause for this year??? Ridiculous isn't it.... I guess I just the love the shallow DOF stuff I'm seeing from this camera.

Scott Bullock · March 1, 2009

I think if I wind up using the 5d MarkII I'm just going to rent the Z7U so that I can shoot 1080p and save the hassle of mixing 1080i with 1080p.... Or perhaps I should rent a Canon camera that shoots 1080p.

Here's the reason... I like the idea of using the 5D mark II for artistic shots and angles, however I need a solid camera that I can shoot at the same time something safe that I can pick up all the action with including use of a good with a wirless mic. Then later in post mix the footage together.

So the real question is what pro video camera would work best for mixing footage w the 5D MarkII or perhaps it's just a matter of preferance.

Ideally I just want a 5D markII that gives me complete apereture/focus/ISO control or auto without any workarounds and that has XLR inputs... anything else I should ask Santa Clause for this year??? Ridiculous isn't it.... I guess I just the love the shallow DOF stuff I'm seeing from this camera.

Well, I can tell you this, I've been shooting with a Sony Z7U for almost a year now and I love it. Of course, you aren't going to get the shallow DOF with it like you will with the 5D MarkII but I can personally attest to the quality of the Z7U. Maybe the answer for what you are looking for is to buy a DAT recorder to be used in conjunction with the 5D camera that will allow you to use XLR microphones, mixers, etc.

Oliver Christoph Kochs · March 1, 2009

For me the 5DII footage mixes (intercuts) best with the Sony XDCAM EX series of cameras EM1 and EM3.

The XDCAM EX chips are 1/2 inch CMOS, record in full HD and you must of course choose 30p progressive scan to match.

HDV cams (like the Z1) are 1440x1080 and record only in interlaced mode. (The cine- or frame mode of all HDV cams is FAKE).

Scott Bullock · March 2, 2009

For me the 5DII footage mixes (intercuts) best with the Sony XDCAM EX series of cameras EM1 and EM3.
The XDCAM EX chips are 1/2 inch CMOS, record in full HD and you must of course choose 30p progressive scan to match.

HDV cams (like the Z1) are 1440x1080 and record only in interlaced mode. (The cine- or frame mode of all HDV cams is FAKE).

I'm not sure how you are defining the word "fake" but with the Sony Z7U you can capture, record, edit and deliver 1080p. It also has 24p/30p progressive scan modes, which records the captured 1080p images into a 60i stream, 24p via 2-3 pull-down. Whichever way you go, the Z7U is capturing 1080p, which makes sense since its CMOS sensors are natively progressive.

Oliver Christoph Kochs · March 2, 2009

Scott, you're... well right, kinda. I may cite from the Sony Z7U website...

"In these modes, the 1080p image captured by the 3 ClearVid CMOS Sensor system is also recorded as an interlaced signal by dividing each frame into two fields.

This enables compatibility with current editing and monitoring equipment that only accept interlace signals, while maintaining the quality of the 1080p image." The Canon HDVs do the same calling it the "frame mode". The chroma uses 50% of the vertical resolution in either Sony and Canon HDVs. For me that's why HDV intercuts badly with 5D2 footage because it has 1/3 less in horizontal resolution which is identifiable immediately when delivered and or edited in HD. Data rate from HDV (mpeg2) is about half of the 5D2 videostream and H264 is also the more efficient codec.

Scott Bullock · March 2, 2009

You are right, Oliver. But that is in one of the "progressive scan modes" on the Z7U. What you are talking about is taking the Z7U's captured 1080p image and separating it into a 60i stream. However, you don't have to do that. You can shoot 1080 30p and have it maintain its native progressive mode throughout post and delivery. People talk about the inefficiency of MPEG-2 compression, and a few years ago it was sort of tricky to work with, but it seems that most of those problems have been ironed out in recent NLE software. By the way, the EX1 and EX3 use the exact same compression that the Z7U does, only slightly faster; 35 bps on the EX cameras compared to 25 bps on the Z series cameras.

All that being said and considering the sensor size in the Canon 5D Mark II, I'd be surprised if any 1080p footage from a 1/3" or 1/2" camera would cut seamlessly with it. I work with someone who owns a 5D Mark II and we are trying to schedule some time to make some comparisons. The biggest obstacle to working with him, however, is getting him to put the camera into video mode because he's such a tremendous still photographer. He ordered his camera several months before it was available, so he was one of the first people to own one and to this day he still hasn't shot a single frame of video with it! He just got back from Moab, UT and took some stunning still images though.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Scott Bullock