Camera Cost

[Jay Young]

So, I am working on a project. This is a long term project because it is MY project. There are a few "musts", but other than those, anything goes. The musts as far a medium goes are: 'scope aspect, real film, and so, my question is... do cameras really cost that much?

 

I would like to own a camera. It doesn't have to be fancy, or even top of the line. MOS is fine, but sync would ultimately better.

 

Looking on the Ebay, I see an Arriflex 435 with IVS and 4-400' magazines + RCU... for 97 thousand dollars. I don't know about you, but I aint spending $100,000 on a camera. $1000 maybe, but not $100,000.

 

What about the Russians you say? Well, there arent many Konvas' for under a grand on the bay, they can be found. I guess the majority that are over $3000 can be attributed to people being crazy and smoking something other than tobacco... I know not.

 

The same thing I find in the smaller gauges. Tho, in the 8mm field, camera prices are a bit more stable. So, what is one to do? Rent? For the same rent cost of a 35mm package, I can purchase a fine 8mm or perhaps even a 16mm camera. Any thoughts? Should I look elsewhere?

[Oliver Christoph Kochs]

Just in case you have never used film before (i mean something like Kodak Vision Negative) please try a Bolex H16 or an older Arri 16 st or bl. Find out about the prices of raw stock and lab processing.

The 1000 $ will be worth spend for an old camera that doesn't jam or scratch your film. The Konvas need rework cause as far as i know they don't have exact bell and howell pitch. I once had a 2M and it jammed. I gave up repairing it.

[Tom Hepburn]

Hi John,

 

I bought a camera off of Ebay. Knowing what I know now, I would also factor in what it would cost to have a good camera tech give it the once over.

 

Tom

[David Mullen ASC]

You have to consider whether you need it to be quiet for sound shooting or if an MOS camera is fine, what format you want to shoot in (16mm, Super-16, 35mm, Super-35, etc.), whether you need crystal-sync, whether you need faster frame rates, etc.

 

It's not surprising that movie cameras are expensive, is it? They are not mass-produced electronics, they are hand-assembled pieces of precision machinery sold in low volumes. Especially in 35mm -- there was never a consumer-level market for 35mm movie cameras, unlike 16mm and Super-8 / 8mm.

 

An Arri-35BL3 is probably a decent silent 35mm movie camera for shooting low-budget narrative at crystal sync -- I suspect it would be hard to find a used package for under $20,000.

 

And then there is the issue of LENSES...

 

If you just need an MOS camera, then an Arri-2C is a decent camera, the 35mm version of a 16mm Arri-S basically.

[Jim Exton]

I own an Arriflex 35BL-2 that I have been trying to sell.

 

It will deliver a top notch image. The lens blimp is a pain for a lot of people, but it works and for low budget use, it is fine.

 

Camera with barney is pretty quiet, in a small room you will still need another blanket put over it.

 

All told, it cost me $11 grand. You can check out the short I shot with it in my signature.

 

If you have any other questions about the camera, send me a PM. I also have a Konvas that I would like to get rid of as well.

[Hal Smith]

For reference, I just bought a middle production high speed Arri 2C kit off ebay for $2650 delivered that came with three quality lenses (Cooke Speed Panchro 25mm Series III, 40mm SII, and 50mm SII), two 200' mags, a Cine 60 flat base, wild (variable speed) motor, hi hat, an original Arri handhold lens shade/matte box, and a really nice case that holds the camera with mag, lenses, and motor on it.

 

This kit was quite a bargain but they are out there if you're patient. I'd been looking for a high speed 2C for a year or so with the original turret with the one stainless steel bayonet lens mount port but the HS 2C's that showed up on ebay or that dealers had were converted to PL and BNC mount which runs the price up. I already have a pretty good collection of Cooke SPII/III lenses in Arri standard mount, an Angenieux 35-140 compact zoom in Arri std. and an Angie 20-120 zoom in bayonet mount so when this kit showed up a couple of weeks ago I started stalking it. I'm pretty certain it's ready to go since it was CLA'd within the last year, used very little since, and looks and sounds good. I'm going to shoot a test roll of 5285 and see what I get.

 

I already have a pile of 400' mags, support gear, sync motors, accessories, etc. purchased for use with my 2B but all one would need on top of the above kit to start shooting MOS non-sync is a tripod capable of handling 20# or so, lighting, a 12 volt battery, and some film.

[Tim Carroll]

Or you could go with this:

 

Arriflex 35 IIC camera package w/crystal motor

 

 

And get a fully serviced low milage Arriflex 35 IIC camera package with the best crystal sync motor ever made for that camera. Along with five magazines (four 400' forward and reverse ARRI III mags and one 200' ARRI IIC mag), new 1.85 ARRI ground glass, PL mount (so you can use all the best glass), High Speed gate, a IIC Barney, cases for the camera and the mags, and an ARRI constant speed motor thrown in to boot.

 

All for $5400.

 

Best,

-Tim

[Hal Smith]

Or you could go with this:

 

And get a fully serviced low milage Arriflex 35 IIC camera package with the best crystal sync motor ever made for that camera...........

 

All for $5400.

 

-Tim

 

I drooled all over your camera and if I wasn't so focused on finding one with a bayo turret port you'd have got a phone call from me. The cheapest I've seen a bayo/std to PL adapter was an original Arri one for $1300 and, as you know, the cheap aftermarket adapters don't work with Cooke internal focus lenses.

[Tim Carroll]

Hal,

 

Don't let the adapter stop you. I got mine from Les Bosher (Arri PL - Arri Standard with Spring loaded levers (for Cooke type Lenses))

 

Les's Web Site

 

Brand new, and it was GBP250.00. Heck, if you buy the package I might even be able to lend you my adapter until yours comes from England. Of course my set of Cooke Speed Panchro Ser II and Ser III will be lonely without it. :lol:

 

Best,

-Tim

[Hal Smith]

Don't let the adapter stop you. I got mine from Les Bosher (Arri PL - Arri Standard with Spring loaded levers.......... Of course my set of Cooke Speed Panchro Ser II and Ser III will be lonely without it.

Yah but I'd still need something for the 20-120. And...I wouldn't want to hurt your SP's feelings...if they're anything like Ms. Blanchett they'd bawl all over your shop...not all things Brit know how to keep a stiff upper lip. ;)

[Tim Carroll]

Is the 20-120 Bayonet, or Cooke Standard ARRI mount, like the Speed Panchros?

 

The high quality Bayonet to PL mounts are plentiful, got mine from Paul Duclos for $350.

 

Best,

-Tim

[Hal Smith]

Is the 20-120 Bayonet, or Cooke Standard ARRI mount, like the Speed Panchros?

Bayonet. It's good to know Paul's got them for that price. But for me it still would have been a quick $800 or so for adapters to get a PL mount camera.

[Tim Carroll]

Hal,

 

What is your 20-120, and Angenieux or a Cooke? I wish someone made a 35mm zoom with the characteristics of the Cooke primes, and an 18-50 or maybe 18-75 range. Something sort of small and not too heavy (and not too expensive). Would make a nice lens for the IIC and the ARRI III.

 

Best,

-Tim

[Stephen Williams]

Hal,

 

What is your 20-120, and Angenieux or a Cooke? I wish someone made a 35mm zoom with the characteristics of the Cooke primes, and an 18-50 or maybe 18-75 range. Something sort of small and not too heavy (and not too expensive). Would make a nice lens for the IIC and the ARRI III.

 

Best,

-Tim

 

Hi Tim,

 

Cooke made a 20-60 which also shows up as a 10-30 for S16.

 

Stephen

[Tim Carroll]

Hi Tim,

 

Cooke made a 20-60 which also shows up as a 10-30 for S16.

 

Stephen

 

Where can I find one of those? :rolleyes:

 

And what the the F number on that? 2.2, 2.8, 4 ?

 

Best,

-Tim

 

PS: I think I'm in love . . .

 

And for a mere $48,000.00 I can have my very own Cooke 15-40mm, T2.0 CXX Zoom

 

What a beautiful piece of glass.

[Tim Carroll]

Now we're talking!!

 

 

 

Best, ;)

-Tim

[Hal Smith]

What is your 20-120, and Angenieux or a Cooke? I wish someone made a 35mm zoom with the characteristics of the Cooke primes....... Would make a nice lens for the IIC and the ARRI III.

It's the Angenieux. It is a bit big on a IIC being a T2.9. It definitely requires support. That lens is highly variable in quality, they vary from sharp as a tack to "I think that's the actor's nose but I'm not sure". Mine's pretty decent, it came from Roderick Stevens off his Ultracam and was in BNC when I got it.

 

If your camera now comes with the lens as shown above for $5400 I'LL BUY IT! NOW! INSTANTLY! SCREW PAYPAL, DO YOU WANT ME TO SEND THE MONEY BY COURIER?

[Bruce Taylor]

The 1000 $ will be worth spend for an old camera that doesn't jam or scratch your film. The Konvas need rework cause as far as i know they don't have exact bell and howell pitch. I once had a 2M and it jammed. I gave up repairing it.

 

I couldn't just let this slide by. Konvi are not particular concerning the sprocket holes, as they do not have a registration pin like many MOS cameras of the day (Eclair, Arri). So Kodak or B&H perfed film works fine. I don't know what you might mean by, "I gave up repairing it." Did you have a camera repair technician look at it or was it a DIY affair? Like any similar low production, hand fitted, precision piece of machinery they need regular professional care. Something as simple as a misadjusted or improperly threaded magazine will easily cause jams. (The only time I have had my Konvas jam was when I made the errors in mag loading)

 

As to the original post, 35mm motion picture cameras and anamorphic optics are not inexpensive, no matter how old, that plus you're over $100 an hour for a tech to keep it maintained properly. Seriously, an old Konvas with a set of decent anamorphics is way over 10k, and there isn't anything cheaper than that!

 

The 16mm Arri S, BL, Bolex route would be much more reasonable. They make great images at very low cost.

 

Bruce Taylor

www.Indi35.com

[David Rakoczy]

When people are talking about the cost of a Camera... you have to ask, what constitutes a Camera?

 

You'll spend about $40,000 USD for a COMPLETE Arri SR2.. (depending on which lenses you score).. from Spreaders to Eye Piece Heater.. Lenses to Fluid Head.. Filters to Video Tap & Monitor, Travel Cases to Chroziel Mattbox.. OnBoards to Block Battery, Tuff Packs for Standard & Baby Sticks.. Hi Hat to Chroziel Follow Focus.. Extension Eyepiece.. and on and on... my Sr2 Package came in 5- Camera Cases and 2- Tuff packs.

 

Before buying.. list everything you need and everything you think you'll need.. because you will!

 

With a complete package... you can easily shoot a Feature on S16!

[K Borowski]

RENT RENT RENT!

 

You people that buy 35mms are crazy!

 

Unless you are going to be shooting with it every day, or own your own rental house, or ad agency, or studio, it isn't worth it.

 

Even the big Hollywood Studios rent.

[Hal Smith]

RENT RENT RENT!

You people that buy 35mms are crazy!

Unless you are going to be shooting with it every day, or own your own rental house, or ad agency, or studio, it isn't worth it.

Even the big Hollywood Studios rent.

Karl,

 

Just how many feet are you from the nearest rental house where you're sitting reading this?

 

I'm 235 miles from the nearest rental house in Dallas where they really don't want to rent you a camera to take out of town unless you're a big production company. Think about it, would you be so down on buying gear if you lived in NYC and the nearest rental house was in DC?

 

Same distance.

[David Rakoczy]

Sure... I would... A certificate of Insurance is all you need besides $ to rent... just send a P.A. for the Pick Up and Return. It is done all the time.

[Jay Young]

Well, I never thought I would get so many responses. I love this board! So I'm in the slap middle of kentucky, and the nearest "major" rental house is who knows where... there is one 2 hours north of me in Louisville, but they have recently junked all there film for digital because people in the city want "harder, faster, more, now..." IMHO.

 

I have been looking into a Bolex 16mm for some time, but I would like one with the 400' option, and those don't seem to come around all that often. I don't mind to crop my image for the scope aspect I want to work with.

 

For all those people that say rent, I'm not sure if you are aware or not but there's like a depression on. Cost is a real issue for me in my current situation. My project is in the "now we just need money" phase for me, and I don't have a lot. So renting a camera would be fine, but I need the flexibility of owning a camera. I would rather put the rental money into owning a camera I can use whenever I please.

 

However, at this point, renting may be the cheaper option (I don't know about the long run), and I suppose I will have to wait and see... Only time will tell.

That $5400 Arri looks amazing!

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Renting is generally cheaper. Don't forget, you rent for say a 4 day week and a 15 day month. Meaning that it's not, say $100/day for 30 days= 3000, rather it's $100/day for 30 days (charged for 15)=$1500!

Of course that day rate is just to simplify math. But, in truth, renting a camera kit is by far cheaper than buying.

I dropped well over 30,000 for my SR3 Package.... and that was used and I was VERY lucky to get it.

 

What I would do, would be track down your local/state film office and speak with them. I'm certain they'll have a whole slew of people around you who own pieces of kit.

[Hal Smith]

For all those who say RENT!

 

Renting is not the answer for a more documentary style production.

 

I'm sitting three feet from a case with an assembled high speed Arri IIC with three lenses in the turret, a 400 mag on it, handgrip motor attached, battery, hi-hat, 35-140mm compact zoom & flatbase. Next to it is a case with a 20-120mm T2.9 zoom in it with lens support attached and leaning up against the wall is a heavy duty tripod with an O'Connor 50D on it. I've got three more 400' mags that could be loaded and in the fridge. I got a pile of who knows how many 200' mags since two more came with the IIC, I think I've got six of the them.

 

Who is going to get 35mm footage of the next "photo friendly" tornado to come storming through Central Oklahoma? Me...or the film-maker sending a PA to Dallas? The tornado that came 1/2 mile away from my house two weeks ago, tearing up million dollar homes 1-1/2 miles away in its path, unfortunately was rain wrapped...darn it!

 

And how hard will it be for me to shoot my planned short that will involve getting just the right spring day with sun and fruit trees in full flower? Hollywood would spend a million dollars on Art Direction to create that day, God Almighty going to handle my Art Direction, I just need to wait for Him to pick the day.