2009 prime lenses

[Keith Walters]

I could check this your provocation only today. What's your problem? Didn't your mother teach you to respect the others? Or at least their opinions?

 

Could not one of the rest of filmmakers gang be bothered to check?

 

 

Well as they say:

 

"Every man is entitled to his own opinion.

That does not however, entitle him to his own facts."

 

(By the way, Keith did not actually write this. I'm just here to pump out his grease trap; he left his laptop running, and I couldn't resist).

[Keith Walters]

The real Keith is here now :lol:

Here's an interestingly boring observation:

 

Where I now work, because I know a lot about video and film cameras, they assume I know all about optics too, so over the past couple of years I've been given a variety of binoculars to test and evaluate.

 

Most of them cost around $US10 - $15 landed, and generally they look like it. Everybody seems to be mad keen on putting a "zoom" function into their binocs, with pretty diabolical results.

 

Anyway, one standard test that the local consumer magazine "Choice" suggests for binoculars is that they must be able to withstand at least one drop of 1 metre onto a vinyl-covered concrete floor, without significant damage.

 

All the samples I've tested have broken into several pieces with that test, so testing was suspended!

I had assembled a little "museum" of products that have failed in a spectacular manner, like the Kiddies' Karaoke machine where the plastic is supposed to be "V-0" rated (the highest level of flame retardance available), but which you could have used the cabinet to start your Weber Barbeque!

I think it was made from recycled Napalm... My box of "single-drop" binocular parts was also included.

 

However a while back I was told to get rid of all that crap, including the shattered binoculars. The lenses seemed undamaged and I thought they might be good for kids to play with so I laborously pulled the things apart.

 

Here's the thing: the quality of the objective and eyepiece lenses, and the inverting prisms, was absolutely stunning! The reason for the binocs' lousy performance was entirely because the zoom mechanisms used unbelievably cheap moulded plastic lenses. The other lenses were precision coated multi-element types, and I made a really nice telescope out of two of them using plastic tubing.

 

The prisms are also really good quality, and by putting two of them in fromt of my handycam I could get some pretty convincing anamorphic effects.

 

All of this is just to say that somewhere in China there is a lot of really top-notch glass being turned out really cheaply, which I suspect might be answer to where all these affordable cine lenses are coming from.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Could not one of the rest of filmmakers gang be bothered to check?

 

 

Well as they say:

 

"Every man is entitled to his own opinion.

That does not however, entitle him to his own facts."

 

(By the way, Keith did not actually write this. I'm just here to pump out his grease trap; he left his laptop running, and I couldn't resist).

As far as the first part concerns, I just can say it is well seen. I'm just trying to refrain (at least I hope) their jokes over here for respect towards Stephen, David or even Tim Tyler. But for your own sake, I can assure to you they are all shooting nowadays, not sailing through daily web.

 

On your second part, it's just your original humor which you're already used to show off to everybody that comes to read these boards. Not fake copies. I'm sure (we know) there are a lot of people who come, read, disagree with your RED bashing. But 'cause these other posters feel threatened to be insulted when they express themselves their opinions freely only why they say what they think about RED, they are not posting their own impressions or experience among you so often as they could do. A few of you seem to me a bunch of guys in certain regions of Europe during the '30s.

 

Yet about facts, here's another one:

 

I've just watched, last night [ LINK ], a short [ LINK 2 ] made by a former student not from the traditional official filmschool but outside [ LINK 3 ]. Never in Portugal, a northern student could have the opportunity to shoot in 35mm till now without to go to the big town as I did myself in order to conclude my four-years BFA in Directing and Editing before dreaming with a 35mm camera.

 

Yesterday night, a short 35mm shot was 1st part of a multi academy awarded digital shot feature (Slumdog...) where there was another preview, RED shot (Che).

 

Is it allowed to me to post my impressions on it without being attacked just 'cause I have facts over some usual hate from one or two posters who are always trying to denigrate RED and its customers or shooters, trying to re-write the truth as it could be possible to argue against just evidences?

 

In a single line, RED ONE footage (@ the big screen) is beyond my initial expectations. Same for the people with me yesterday night. All graduated by Lisbon_Film_School (including from the cinematography department). The best I could check. So far. :-)

 

PS [EDIT] You asked it, you've got it.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Emanuel A Guedes

[Martin Hawkes]

A few of you seem to me a bunch of guys in certain regions of Europe during the '30s.

 

I have no idea what this thread is about any longer. But if I had to choose Europe in the ´30s I would have to say gay Paris!

 

Peace out!

 

M

Edited March 19, 2009 by Martin Hawkes

[John Sprung]

All of this is just to say that somewhere in China there is a lot of really top-notch glass being turned out really cheaply, which I suspect might be answer to where all these affordable cine lenses are coming from.

 

Perhaps -- But given what it takes to tool up for high quality lens grinding, it could be that they're just moulding the plastic and assembling in China, with glass from elsewhere, perhaps Russia. When some components are made much better than they need to be, they're likely to be from some pre-existing plant rather than from something built specifically for the current product. Are there any identifying marks on the internal parts?

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[John Sprung]

But if I had to choose Europe in the ´30s I would have to say gay Paris!

 

Too modern for me -- did they really have track lighting and cans in the '30s? I'd take Vienna -- pre-anschluss of course.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Jean Leclerc]

Yet about facts, here's another one:

 

I've just watched, last night [ LINK ], a short [ LINK 2 ] made by a former student not from the traditional official filmschool but outside [ LINK 3 ]. Never in Portugal, a northern student could have the opportunity to shoot in 35mm till now without to go to the big town as I did myself in order to conclude my four-years BFA in Directing and Editing before dreaming with a 35mm camera.

 

Yesterday night, a short 35mm shot was 1st part of...

Shot with Red?

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Shot on 4K RED ONE S35mm sensor size.

 

2K (Workflow).

 

Exhibition's print, 35mm film. Kodak, I believe.

(lab) Tobis [ LINK ] in Lisbon.

[K Borowski]

I could check this your provocation only today. What's your problem? Didn't your mother teach you to respect the others? Or at least their opinions?

 

My problem is your liberal use of hyperbole.

 

Sorry, never had a mother. I was raised by wild wolves :P

[Emanuel A Guedes]

My problem is your liberal use of hyperbole.

 

I can even figure out your reasonable POV on the hyperbole argument. But you should quote me first before taking as granted that every RED customers or users eat from the same menu.

[Keith Walters]

I'm sure (we know) there are a lot of people who come, read, disagree with your RED bashing. B

WHAT RED bashing?

Show me an example.

How does taking the mickey out of pissant fanboy wannabes constitute RED bashing?

The RED can produce excellent results in the right hands.

Unfortunately 99.9999% of Fanboys have their right hands otherwise occupied....

[Keith Walters]

Perhaps -- But given what it takes to tool up for high quality lens grinding, it could be that they're just moulding the plastic and assembling in China, with glass from elsewhere, perhaps Russia. When some components are made much better than they need to be, they're likely to be from some pre-existing plant rather than from something built specifically for the current product. Are there any identifying marks on the internal parts?

 

-- J.S.

 

They're completely unmarked.

I'm not a lens technician but I have seen high quality cine lenses dismantled. A front element from one of those is easily recognizable by the way it behaves if you use it as a magnifying glass. The magnified image is absolutely distortion-free, right up to the edges, and there is no trace of chromatic aberration. The real giveaway is that when you move the lens far enough from the paper that it goes out of focus, everything goes out of focus at precisely the same time. Lenses for cheap binoculars I’ve looked at in the past were nowhere near this quality.

When some components are made much better than they need to be, they're likely to be from some pre-existing plant rather than from something built specifically for the current product.

The manufacture of LCD TV panels is an ultra high-tech operation that requires an extraordinary level of attention to detail, something which people previously thought Chinese manufacturers could never master. But master it they did, and now they are churning out enormous quantities of high quality product, at unbelievably low prices.

Similarly I think if somebody became convinced that there is a huge market for HD cameras like the RED, they may well think it worth putting in the hard yards to make what was formerly an expensive handmade product into something mass-producible.

The mistake everyone makes is thinking that the market will be restricted to film and TV production. I think you will find that the real market will be ultra-high-resolution surveillance

[Chris Keth]

I'm sure (we know) there are a lot of people who come, read, disagree with your RED bashing.

 

I'd like to say, as I have before, that I haven't seen a single case of anything I would characterize as RED bashing, or bashing any other camera format for that matter. The difference between people here and at the REDuser forums is that people here are working professionals, realists. We're people that have to use the equipment day in and day out. We simply like to wait until things are proven before we go ranting and raving about their good points.

 

I suppose that makes us all RED haters, but whatever. :blink:

[Will Earl]

WHAT RED bashing?

 

Strange. I've thought you've been far too complimentary towards the RED camera lately.

[Stephen Williams]

WHAT RED bashing?

 

Hi,

 

Some people have opinions & express them, others like to suck up to be liked. Nobody's perfect!

 

Stephen

[Keith Walters]

Strange. I've thought you've been far too complimentary towards the RED camera lately.

Ah.

That might have something to do with the fact that despite the bogus aura of ubiquity generated on certain other forums, until very recently I had never actually SEEN any confirmed real-world RED footage.

 

Librarian 3 worked OK on DVD

My Blooody Valentine was not a really valid test vehicle.

Knowing will be released here next week, and it will be the first "Full Metal Jacket" RED production that the unbiased general public will have seen.

 

I don't give a toss about the actual number of frames of RED footage have been shot, the only thing that is important is the number of frames that get seen by anybody other than the producer and his immediate family.

 

By the way, in this country we don't have thousands of cable operators scratching for any available bit of **new** dross to fill their programming schedules, so in general anything that gets shown here tends to what rises to the top of the compost heap. So far very little RED footage has done so.

 

The fact that 5,000 cameras have been sold is also pretty meaningless. After all, modern best-selling authors use pretty much the same PCs and Word Processing software as hundreds of milions of other people. This does not mean that there are hundreds of millions of new Harry Potter novels being published.

[Keith Walters]

Hi,

 

Some people have opinions & express them, others like to suck up to be liked. Nobody's perfect!

 

Stephen

Yes, and the "others" know that **certain people ** will be reading these posts, (even if they manfully resist the urge to respond), so the "others" seek to indulge in a bit of "brand awareness" by posting to champion the cause. They should be grateful we give them the dragons to slay :lol:

 

And by the way, what ever happened to Jan von Krogh(15)?

He started this.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

From the gang (Stephen's love), in a Emanuel's rest moment: Jan would probably say you shouldn't waste your precious time going after your precious (?) screenplays directly to the screen, if it wouldn't be a computer screen. It certain lacks the DVD or the Blu-ray player. We didn't write BD recorder but you can take it as granted. :lol:

 

We call it brainstorming if any reader here will be aware of it.

[Keith Walters]

From the gang (Stephen's love), in a Emanuel's rest moment: Jan would probably say you shouldn't waste your precious time going after your precious (?) screenplays directly to the screen, if it wouldn't be a computer screen. It certain lacks the DVD or the Blu-ray player. We didn't write BD recorder but you can take it as granted.

 

We call it brainstorming if any reader here will be aware of it.

 

What the photon are you talking about?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh no. Sorry about the above post folks.

How many times have I told them not to leave the dog in the house when the computer's running.

She doesn't know anything about cinematography.

...but on the other hand, neither do a lot of the people who post here :blink:

[Chris Gloag]

Too modern for me -- did they really have track lighting and cans in the '30s? I'd take Vienna -- pre-anschluss of course.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

 

 

Abject equation.

[Emanuel A Guedes]

Oh no. Sorry about the above post folks.

How many times have I told them not to leave the dog in the house when the computer's running.

She doesn't know anything about cinematography. (...)

On your presumption (but you could get a second colour or are you prepping your application for a tabloid?), bigbrother, you couldn't be more wrong. She's having now her fair sleep at home (lisbon time zone, you know). Husband's working. Moreover, she has no clue about who you are either. I'm not used to tell her about you.

 

In a collective (last time I checked, the cinema is a collective work but maybe there may have differences between people used to live together two months or 2 days...), there are different minds. Taking the prior example, if we just add a blank (it's not necessary more than that) in between:

 

« (...) Jan would probably say you shouldn't waste your precious time going after your precious (?) screenplays directly to the screen, if it wouldn't be a computer screen.

 

It certain lacks the DVD or the Blu-ray player. We didn't write BD recorder but you can take it as granted. (...) »

 

It will offer another reading, can't you get it?

 

As for instance, Stephen's post has a meaning, you've added it a different one with yours. I am quite sure the original one was quite different from the latter one. Same for our distinct opinions about him or you. You are mentioned only as mere example. No more than this. ;)

 

You should be grateful you have your fanboys among them. Don't mistreat your audiences. I know they don't pay ticket but...

[Emanuel A Guedes]

 

Abject equation.

 

On the abject thing, well seen. A picture to describe it better? It would be difficult to get it. :-)

[Keith Walters]

On your presumption (but you could get a second colour or are you prepping your application for a tabloid?), bigbrother, you couldn't be more wrong. She's having now her fair sleep at home (lisbon time zone, you know). Husband's working. Moreover, she has no clue about who you are either. I'm not used to tell her about you.

 

In a collective (last time I checked, the cinema is a collective work but maybe there may have differences between people used to live together two months or 2 days...), there are different minds. Taking the prior example, if we just add a blank (it's not necessary more than that) in between:

 

« (...) Jan would probably say you shouldn't waste your precious time going after your precious (?) screenplays directly to the screen, if it wouldn't be a computer screen.

 

It certain lacks the DVD or the Blu-ray player. We didn't write BD recorder but you can take it as granted. (...) »

 

It will offer another reading, can't you get it?

 

As for instance, Stephen's post has a meaning, you've added it a different one with yours. I am quite sure the original one was quite different from the latter one. Same for our distinct opinions about him or you. You are mentioned only as mere example. No more than this. ;)

 

You should be grateful you have your fanboys among them. Don't mistreat your audiences. I know they don't pay ticket but...

E r... What ...?

[Jean Leclerc]

know anything about cinematography.

...but on the other hand, neither do a lot of the people who post here :blink: [/color]

 

Who? You? :lol: Lol