KNOWING director Alex Proyas on RED camera

David Mullen ASC · April 30, 2009

The end of one era and the beginning of another always brings a certain wistfulness as we look back at what we are losing. Most of the independent silent film people went on to work in the heydey of the sound era for the major studios, and I'm sure some looked back with fondness for the wild west of the early days of cinema. And when the studio era was ending and the age of independent production began, some people looked back at fondness at the studio era.

Things always change, the hope is that the lessons of the past won't be forgotten, but is applied to whatever the new approach is. At least that's a practical form of nostalgia. I'm always reading old magazines from the 1940's, 50's, etc. about filmmaking, not just because it's my hobby, but because I believe there may be some golden nugget in there, some old technique that would be new all over again.

Joseph Arch · April 30, 2009

What exactly is your experience? I'd be curious since I have never met you, seen your work or worked with you.

That will be revealed in time.

Thanks for your story. It was interesting to read.

Yes, I find it ironic too, that Joseph has managed to alienate the pro-film people on this forum. But the same thing happens with the die-hard "film is dead" fanatics -- they often alienate pro-digital people.

I agree with you, the arguments for using film are quite strong and deep. But that doesn't mean there is no room for variation in technical approach or aesthetics to filmmaking. We're talking about an artform here; there's bound to be a wide range of attitudes and styles -- and that's not a bad thing.

I never said never, David. It will eventually come into play that digital will take over film or even be incorporated with it to give it a whole new look. However, right now is not it's time to shine. It's just not ready yet. It's catching up so we never know what is going to happen.

I am not really certain why after my apology you still have this grudge against me. I am still learning. So, even if I am a little stubborn. I am pretty sure you and others here are also stubborn in an area of your life. Time will reveal everything. So, instead of trying to just ignore me, continue guiding. No matter how good a teacher is, experience will always win.

Edited April 30, 2009 by Joseph Arch

K Borowski · April 30, 2009

That will be revealed in time.

Thanks for your story. It was interesting to read.

I never said never, David. It will eventually come into play that digital will take over film or even be incorporated with it to give it a whole new look. However, right now is not it's time to shine. It's just not ready yet.

He doesn't have a "grudge" against you.

Joseph might just be the next great DOP or director yet, if he doesn't feel the need to talk to lowly ACs ;)

Peter Moretti · May 5, 2009

The end of one era and the beginning of another always brings a certain wistfulness as we look back at what we are losing. Most of the independent silent film people went on to work in the heydey of the sound era for the major studios, and I'm sure some looked back with fondness for the wild west of the early days of cinema. And when the studio era was ending and the age of independent production began, some people looked back at fondness at the studio era.

Things always change, the hope is that the lessons of the past won't be forgotten, but is applied to whatever the new approach is. At least that's a practical form of nostalgia. I'm always reading old magazines from the 1940's, 50's, etc. about filmmaking, not just because it's my hobby, but because I believe there may be some golden nugget in there, some old technique that would be new all over again.

I watched Knowing tonight. I sat very close to the screen and tried very hard to look for digital problems, as I did with Crank 2: High Voltage. It was everything that Crank 2 wasn't. I saw no noise and had a hard time looking for problems, b/c there weren't any obvious ones, so I found myself slipping into the story.

The colors lacked richness and the latitude was limited--but I thought they worked around it well, esp. in the school scenes. The blacks lacked some detail, but they were clean.

When the movie ended and I felt sad. I actually almost started to cry. It had to do with the symbolism of the end of a world. Seeing the Red logo at the end really hit home for me that the world of film is dying. It's been in a decline for awhile now, but this film just sounded the gong for me in a way that Apocalytpo, Collateral, Che 1 & 2 and others hadn't.

I know one has to be pragmatic and even learn from the past and bring it to the present when appropriate, but I still felt sad. It's the end of an era, and no cheesy scene of two kids running under some tree of life is going to make me feel better tonight that I just watched a beloved world get blown apart.

georg lamshöft · May 6, 2009

Digital will come and digital will surpass film in quality - someday.

I have trouble seeing the difference between medium-format and 35mm-shots (film&digital) in some magazines/prints and sometimes the difference is obvious. Why is that? Because the quality of presentation is different.

Right now, the technical-quality of cinema is very limited, we have not-too-bad 2k digital projection and not very well handled 35mm-prints. And after lot's of post-production, filtering, lighting and a bad technical presentation you can still tell the difference? Well, the difference in stock/sensor-quality must have been dramatic!

We have the technical, measureable differences in resolution, MTF, DR but also aesthetic differences (especially in colors) and certain unique aspects (noise, grain appeal, motion artifacts...) and I think you should be able to use the best (for your demands) tool! Limiting your choice because one of the options doesn't sound appropriate in our "digital world"? Right now, the technical benchmarks are set with film (see Dark Knight). As long as film gives us something we can't achieve with digital, we should have the option for shooting film! And I think there are more than enough powerful people in Hollywood to win a fight against short-sighted business-managers screaming "finanical crisis! we can't afford film stock anymore"...

Come on, "Knowing" looked ok, I have seen 35mm-films with a 2k telecine that haven't looked better and I have seen digitally-shot movies which looked similar years ago - but I can tell you dozens of 35mm-movies that indeed looked better! Minutes before reading this thread, I've seen this (although, typical artificial Jeunet-look) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8v1PzNPLhQ and "film is dead" wasn't exactly what I was thinking... :P

Edited May 6, 2009 by georg lamshöft