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Bell and Howell for Super 16?


Steven Budden

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The problem with attempting to move the turret over is that the turret spindle is concentric with the shutter blade assembly and turns a simple file & dremel operation into a logistical nightmare. My guess is that, if your stock of C mount lenses don't support an offset S16 format, you'd be better of buying a $30 Nikon F to C mount adapter and use Nikon lenses for your S16 shots.

 

Well, I made some progress this weekend. I bought a set of small files from home depot and was able to file down the gate to super-16 size easily. the new size goes almost to the edge. I used a dremel with some metal grinding tips to bore out the metal in front of the gate (Behind the lens). Theres a few layers of metal from the front of the turret to the front of gate, so that took about 3 hours for the whole job. I tried to enlarge the circle to that of stretched circle to the right, enough so that the entire super-16 is exposed. Its certainly doesn't look pretty (I think I may have grinded off a little too much metal on the top right, [had the dremel on high speed and it was hard to control] but it shouldn't matter). Today, I'll go find some flat black paint to cover up the exposed shiny metal in front of the gate. Also, as I did all of these mods I used scotch tape to cover all of the inside parts in and around the gate to keep out the grinded metal; also blow compress air now and then as you go. I have some lenses to try out for the test run - will keep you posted.

 

- Derek

Edited by dm24ig
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Well, I made some progress this weekend.  I bought a set of small files from home depot and was able to file down the gate to super-16 size easily. the new size goes almost to the edge.  I used a dremel with some metal grinding tips to bore out the metal in front of the gate (Behind the lens).  Theres a few layers of metal from the front of the turret to the front of gate, so that took about 3 hours for the whole job.  I tried to enlarge the circle to that of stretched circle to the right, enough so that the entire super-16 is exposed.  Its certainly doesn't look pretty (I think I may have grinded off a little too much metal on the top right, [had the dremel on high speed and it was hard to control] but it shouldn't matter).  Today, I'll go find some flat black paint to cover up the exposed shiny metal in front of the gate.  Also, as I did all of these mods I used scotch tape to cover all of the inside parts in and around the gate to keep out the grinded metal; also blow compress air now and then as you go. I have some lenses to try out for the test run - will keep you posted.

 

- Derek

 

Are you planning to repolish the gate surface so the newly filed areas won't scratch the film?

 

Any way you could take some digital photos of the process as you go along? Would be nice to see the details of the insides w/o taking mine apart! (I know, it's cheeky of me to let you take all the risk, but there ya go...) ;)

 

Good luck,

Chris

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I too would love to see some jpegs of the process and the results.

 

I was going to repolish the gate surface, but after filing it down, it really looks fine. I ran my finger across the original gate and the new filed part and then both feel pretty smooth. I guess polishes certainly wouldn't hurt. Does anyone how to go about this. Is some sort of metal polish that you apply and rub in? My dremel has a few polishing tips, but I've never donw anything lke that before - any guidance would be appreciated.

 

I did take some photos of the work I've done and I'll post that once its finished. I too, was reluctant to start in on it, but said wtf and just jumped in. I'll see if its a success soon, or I'll starting looking for another 70DR.

 

- Derek

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You filed out the gate by hand? That's daring. How did you mark your progress so that you know you've reached the official Super 16 dimension? Did you pull off the shutter assembly from the rest of the camera before filing and dremelling the gate?

 

I'm also interested in seeing pic's and hearing your result. Keep us informed.

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You filed out the gate by hand? That's daring. How did you mark your progress so that you know you've reached the official Super 16 dimension? Did you pull off the shutter assembly from the rest of the camera before filing and dremelling the gate?

 

I'm also interested in seeing pic's and hearing your result. Keep us informed.

 

Filing the gate by hand really wasn't that hard. I basically did a little at a time and checked the width with a ruler. the only thing I took apart was the gate assembly. I think it came out pretty good considering I've never done anything like this before.

 

I just got around to putting up my photos w/ notes online. Feel free to check em out and post your comments here.

 

go to: http://www.marazzo.us/filmo.htm

 

 

Thanks,

Derek

Edited by dm24ig
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First of all, congratulations on your project. I hope the results meet your expectations.

 

For anyone else considering this operation, I strongly recommend removing the front end (shutter assembly & gate) from the rest of the camera before doing any filing or work that generates metal shavings. The clockwork mechanism does not take kindly to bits of metal in the works.

 

The gate plate was precision aligned on the front assembly at the factory using a special tool. Removal and reinstallation of the gate risks getting an improper gate alignment.

 

I will try to track down my US gov't repair manual & post excerpts concerning this assembly.

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First of all, congratulations on your project. I hope the results meet your expectations.

 

For anyone else considering this operation, I strongly recommend removing the front end (shutter assembly & gate) from the rest of the camera before doing any filing or work that generates metal shavings. The clockwork mechanism does not take kindly to bits of metal in the works.

 

The gate plate was precision aligned on the front assembly at the factory using a special tool. Removal and reinstallation of the gate risks getting an improper gate alignment.

 

I will try to track down my US gov't repair manual & post excerpts concerning this assembly.

 

Thanks Robert

 

I considered removing the shutter assembly along with the gate, but felt it would be a little too advanced an operation (and I didn't want to risk taking apart something that I could put back together correctly). I did a full wind and ran the camera after putting it back together and it runs good. What I need to do now is lubricate the camera. I heard pros and cons of using sewing machine oil - can you recommend an oil to use? Hopefully, I'll have some test results for everyone next week.

 

- Derek

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My guess is that sewing machine oil is sufficient for a Filmo. Some assemblies (i.e. shutter mechanism) need grease rather than oil.

 

Remember, these cameras were distributed by the hundreds to Marines for use in beach landings on sweaty little atolls in the South Pacific. Gun oil would probably work just as well, though I wouldn't recommend it for your camera.

Edited by Robert Hughes
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My guess is that sewing machine oil is sufficient for a Filmo. Some assemblies (i.e. shutter mechanism) need grease rather than oil.

 

Remember, these cameras were distributed by the hundreds to Marines for use in beach landings on sweaty little atolls in the South Pacific. Gun oil would probably work just as well, though I wouldn't recommend it for your camera.

 

Thanks, I just saw some sewing machine oil at Target today. I'll pick up some of that (about 2 bucks)

 

- Derek

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Guest NCSProducts
Filing the gate by hand really wasn't that hard. I basically did a little at a time and checked the width with a ruler.  the only thing I took apart was the gate assembly.  I think it came out pretty good considering I've never done anything like this before.

 

I just got around to putting up my photos w/ notes online.  Feel free to check em out and post your comments here.

 

go to:  http://www.marazzo.us/filmo.htm

Looks good to me! B)

I just posted a Filmo repair manual on the NCS Manuals page

The text is mangled but many of the pics are fine: Filmo Repair Manual

 

On semi-related news, the Revolution Eyemo sync motor will plug into a 16mm Filmo and shoot sync (but not time-lapse).

2005-07-11-rev-with-eyemo-tiny.jpg

Edited by NCSProducts
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Looks good to me!  B)

I just posted a Filmo repair manual on the NCS Manuals page

The text is mangled but many of the pics are fine: Filmo Repair Manual

 

On semi-related news, the Revolution Eyemo sync motor will plug into a 16mm Filmo and shoot sync (but not time-lapse). 

2005-07-11-rev-with-eyemo-tiny.jpg

 

Thank you for the comment. I hope my test footage comes back looking good; and thanks for that pdf - this will definitely come in handy. A filmo shooting sync sounds pretty appealing- think I'll look into getting your product in the future.

 

- Derek

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NCSProducts - Thanks for uploading the manual, it's very similar to mine.

 

What is the difference between the Filmo & Eyemo mechanism that you can't do single frame with a Filmo?

 

dm24ig - Look at Section 20, about page 15 in the manual, entitled "Adjusting the aperture plate". My guess is the tool is necessary to ensure that the gate is square and normal to the film path. If it's maladjusted you may see the gate is cock-eyed on the exposed film.

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NCSProducts - Thanks for uploading the manual, it's very similar to mine.

 

What is the difference between the Filmo & Eyemo mechanism that you can't do single frame with a Filmo?

 

dm24ig - Look at Section 20, about page 15 in the manual, entitled "Adjusting the aperture plate". My guess is the tool is necessary to ensure that the gate is square and normal to the film path. If it's maladjusted you may see the gate is cock-eyed on the exposed film.

 

I see, thanks. I'm planning on shooting a little later this week, and hopefully the plate is where it should be. I must say I'm a little confused because the aperture plate has 4 screws and didn't seem like it had room for adjusting the position, so I simply placed the plate in with the other parts and screwed them in. I'll take a closer look tonight. Since I don't have or probably could never obtain the tool, I may be stuck with just alot of trial and error.

 

- Derek

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Guest NCSProducts
NCSProducts - Thanks for uploading the manual, it's very similar to mine.

 

What is the difference between the Filmo & Eyemo mechanism that you can't do single frame with a Filmo?

Well, I was originally going to say that the slop in the Filmo 20:1 drive prevents reliable single-frame exposure. Then I decided to actually try it...

2005-07-12-rev-filmo-small.jpg

...and it turns out that doesn't seem to be a problem! :)

 

So with the right re-programming I could probably get it time-lapsing on the Filmo.

 

- Dom

NCS Products

Eyemo Motor Page

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So I looked over my camera last night while looking over the pdf the NCSProducts so generously supplied. I'm still confused about the section about adjusting the aperture plate. As I was looking thru the pdf, I came across a mention of the 'gate plate' and began to realize something (at least this is my guess) - the aperture plate is in front of the gate plate. I was thinking they were the same thing. I could be wrong, but since I only removed the gate plate to file down the new size, I probably shouldn't worry about whether the aperture plate is misaligned.

 

I do have a issue with the shutter. The new opening I created may be a bit too wide than needed. As I look at the camera running I can see the shutter blade seems to just about cover the new super-16 frame, but does not cover the width of my new opening. I'm thinking this may be a problem with light leaking - I will find out very soon after my test run. I wonder if there is a way to extend the shutter blade.

 

- Derek

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  • 2 weeks later...
I'm thinking this may be a problem with light leaking - I will find out very soon after my test run.  I wonder if there is a way to extend the shutter blade.

 

Any update so far? Very interested to see your test results... Thanks for keeping us informed as you experiment, very helpful!

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Any update so far?  Very interested to see your test results...  Thanks for keeping us informed as you experiment, very helpful!

 

I plan on shooting test shots this weekend if I can get away from the kids for an hour or so. I've been waiting for a c-mount nikon adapter to show up and it finally arrived yesterday.

 

After shooting, I'd like to get an all-in-one processing/prep/telecine to avi package for a 100' roll. Anyone know who would offer this service (Cheap)???

 

On a side note, I put a nikon lens on the new adapter but haven't a clue how to get the thing off, it feels like its just stuck on there. anyone?

 

- Derek

Edited by dm24ig
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  • 11 months later...
I plan on shooting test shots this weekend if I can get away from the kids for an hour or so. I've been waiting for a c-mount nikon adapter to show up and it finally arrived yesterday.

 

After shooting, I'd like to get an all-in-one processing/prep/telecine to avi package for a 100' roll. Anyone know who would offer this service (Cheap)???

 

On a side note, I put a nikon lens on the new adapter but haven't a clue how to get the thing off, it feels like its just stuck on there. anyone?

 

- Derek

 

<_<

So what about these tests, shooting / telecine ? Did it work ?

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  • 9 months later...

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