Film schools

[Tim Tyler]

Ryan - Visit http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?app=core&module=usercp&tab=core&area=displayname and change your display name to your real first and last name. Thank you.

[Brian Hulnick]

I suppose if you are learning within a real studio system with professionals that will to some extent at least help you overcome the old catch 22 situation, you can't get a job without experience and you get experience without a job.

[Brian Hulnick]

The problem seems to be that some feel that studios take preference to film connection students over other individuals. As long as the FC student can do the job, I cant see any problem. It's dog eat dog world out there.

[Steven Childs]

If you don't get in there quickly, someone else will. Survival of the fittest my friend. You snooze, you lose.

[Brian Hulnick]

Harsh but true.

[Brian Hulnick]

Again, its all down to your mentor and You.

[M Joel W]

Does anyone know of any good technical schools in LA for learning how to be a grip--without too much time or expense?

 

I'm applying to film schools for the fall (MFAs), but in the extremely likely event I'm not accepted my back up plan is to work as a grip and learn as much as I can on set to improve my application for future years. If things go well I may continue working as a grip for some years, perhaps make a career of it, and also save up money for school if it proves necessary.

 

Or should I just look for gigs via craigslist and then try to find connections that way? I have a fair amount of on-set experience, but only on student and micro-budget sets. I would like to support myself this way. Thankfully I can maintain an extraordinarily low cost of living, for the most part, but I'd like to be making some money within a few months, if possible.

 

Thanks!

Edited January 28, 2011 by M Joel Wauhkonen

[Brian Hulnick]

Does anyone know of any good technical schools in LA for learning how to be a grip--without too much time or expense?

 

I'm applying to film schools for the fall (MFAs), but in the extremely likely event I'm not accepted my back up plan is to work as a grip and learn as much as I can on set to improve my application for future years. If things go well I may continue working as a grip for some years, perhaps make a career of it, and also save up money for school if it proves necessary.

 

Or should I just look for gigs via craigslist and then try to find connections that way? I have a fair amount of on-set experience, but only on student and micro-budget sets. I would like to support myself this way. Thankfully I can maintain an extraordinarily low cost of living, for the most part, but I'd like to be making some money within a few months, if possible.

 

Thanks!

 

Good luck with your endeavors, hope it works out for you.

[Brian Dzyak]

Does anyone know of any good technical schools in LA for learning how to be a grip--without too much time or expense?

 

I'm applying to film schools for the fall (MFAs), but in the extremely likely event I'm not accepted my back up plan is to work as a grip and learn as much as I can on set to improve my application for future years. If things go well I may continue working as a grip for some years, perhaps make a career of it, and also save up money for school if it proves necessary.

 

Or should I just look for gigs via craigslist and then try to find connections that way? I have a fair amount of on-set experience, but only on student and micro-budget sets. I would like to support myself this way. Thankfully I can maintain an extraordinarily low cost of living, for the most part, but I'd like to be making some money within a few months, if possible.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Please read through chapters one through five of "What I Really Want to Do: On Set in Hollywood" and the entire section on the GRIP Department AND the Camera and Electric Departments. I think that most of your questions will be answered there. http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780823099535

[Markshaw]

Have to say I'm impressed. We have an author in the house. Is the book readily available, for instance in B&M shops or only online?

[Brian Hulnick]

It's great to know that when he says something he actually knows what he's talking about.

[Markshaw]

Brian (Dzyak) did you learn your craft at university/ college? What do you think of film schools?

[Brian Dzyak]

Brian (Dzyak) did you learn your craft at university/ college? What do you think of film schools?

 

 

My filmschool was falling apart while I was there. We did have some film classes but at that time in the tundra of Ohio, there wasn't anyone around who really knew the industry, the jobs, or how it all worked. When I did get to Los Angeles, I leaped in without knowing any of that so I stumbled my way through the ins & outs trying to figure it all out as I went. After a few years of finally getting a grasp over it all, I decided to get it all down in book form to help others avoid the same confusion that I felt for so long.

 

I didn't come to California completely without some type of experience. While in school at Bowling Green State University, I worked tirelessly at the local PBS affiliate, WBGU TV27. I started there as an Editor and slowly added other skills like Videographer and Producer amongst other technical jobs. The downside of that experience was that for anyone who works in a television environment, doing many jobs is the norm. But the "Hollywood" system is intensely specialized. Because I didn't know that, I did make some errors as I worked my way into the industry. But, as I added projects to my resume and did the research on the book, I finally "got it."

 

 

My opinion of film schools seems to be ever changing, but at the moment, I'm not necessarily a fan. From what I know, MOST film schools (not all) cater their curriculum toward Directors and maybe Writers. Yes, some people graduate from film school and get to work in the industry and a few of them become very successful, but the vast majority do not. The percentages of success vs failure don't really support the idea of spending thousands of dollars for a degree in film. So my humble opinion is that film school is not worth the time and cost.

 

That said, I very much DO recommend that people go to a University because there is so much more a person can learn that IS valuable that CAN improve the odds of building and maintaining a viable career in the professional film industry. For instance, an aspiring Director of course needs to know how a movie gets made, but more importantly, he/she should be studying how to tell a story. In addition to studying other movies, studying literature and history and pop culture and art should be high on the curriculum wish list. There is a great sentiment about "film" school expressed in this speech: http://realfilmcareer.com/forum/index.php?topic=1834.0

 

 

For people who wish to have below-the-line crew jobs, the typical film school won't really be that valuable. Nearly everything a crew member needs to know can be learned quicker and at less cost out in the real world. But, again, there are so many valuable things to learn at school. Communication skills are vital as networking is crucial to maintaining a career. You also will need to be able to effectively communicate your ideas and "orders" to others, so learning how to develop those communication skills (speaking, writing) will be invaluable. Also, courses in business and accounting can be very beneficial as our careers are not just about the "art" of it. All Freelancers are really "business owners" so managing finances is just as important to us as it is to any other company. And going through a four-year program will help a person learn to deal with the logistics of balancing resources and time, a skill that is absolutely necessary in the movie-making industry.

 

The bottom line is that while a film school CAN be beneficial in some ways, I believe that hyper-focusing on film curriculum is probably not the best avenue for most people who want to have a REAL job in the professional film industry. Take film courses, but concentrate MORE on other aspects of education. And while there, make the time to get some "real world" experience by interning or volunteering to work for some working professionals in the area.

[Markshaw]

Thank you Brian for replying and thanks again for an honest answer.

[Brian Hulnick]

Brian,

 

I take it that with all your extensive experience you are able to find plenty of work.

[Brian Hulnick]

If I had a crystal ball and the finances 10 years ago, I almost certainly would have gone to University. However life has taken me a different road so I go to film school. I have to say it suits me just fine and I hope things do work out for me.

[Brian Dzyak]

Brian,

 

I take it that with all your extensive experience you are able to find plenty of work.

 

 

At the moment, the work seems to find me. But it hasn't always been that way and I can't count it always being that way. There's always more to learn and new people entering the field who will eventually take "my place." I'm definitely not rich and have to keep working to pay the bills, but at the moment, I'm not at the point where I'm wondering when the next job will happen, like it has been in the past.

[Brian Hulnick]

At the moment, the work seems to find me. But it hasn't always been that way and I can't count it always being that way. There's always more to learn and new people entering the field who will eventually take "my place." I'm definitely not rich and have to keep working to pay the bills, but at the moment, I'm not at the point where I'm wondering when the next job will happen, like it has been in the past.

 

Good to hear Brian D

[Brian Hulnick]

Brian D: I know it's only February, but would you say things are getting better/ worse/ the same?

[Brian Dzyak]

Brian D: I know it's only February, but would you say things are getting better/ worse/ the same?

 

That's not an easy question to answer. There are around one-thousand movies made and released every year which means that there is a LOT of production going on. The problem, as I see it anyway, is that that work is too scattered around the world to allow most people to have viable careers. If you happen to live in an city or state that gets one or two of those movies, then you MIGHT be able to make a living if you get to work on both. If you live in a city like LA or NYC, then there are more opportunities (though no guarantees, of course) for working steadily.

 

The "good" news is that many states are now waking up to the fact that their tax "incentive" programs are a losing proposition so many of those programs are being cut back or eliminated. What that means is that production will eventually be consolidated back into a just a couple of locations which makes employment and long-term career viability BETTER for serious professionals... IF they make the choice to move and live in one of those places. The current system which scatters production every which way is BAD for serious professionals as there is almost no way to sustain a viable living in one geographic location so long as the work is dependent upon the whims of politicians who are willing to bribe Corporations to bring short-term jobs.

 

In any case, here is the report from the MPAA for 2010 http://www.mpaa.org/Resources/6a507b67-e219-43a3-a4ce-9788d6f1fb5e.pdf that should give you an idea of where production has been recently. But like I said, things are changing as states change their stance on giving bribes/incentives to the movie business. Look through this category for the latest news on what's going on with the incentive/bribe business http://realfilmcareer.com/?cat=11 .

 

"Better" is a subjective term. For someone living in a place that is giving up on incentives, things will get "worse." But that means that things will get "better" for whichever location attracts the work that would've gone somewhere else. It's like trying to follow a bouncing ball in a rubber room. That's why I personally am against this tax incentive scheme that's been concocted. It purposefully pits cities/state/nations against one another to see who can offer the biggest bribe to a for-profit Corporation to get short-term work in their area. This may SEEM good for workers, but it is BAD in the long term because there is no guarantee that those bribes will always be offered by the local government. So, for instance, all of those people in Michigan who bought into the lie that they would become the permanent "Hollywood MidWest!" are in for an awakening soon as ALL of that work suddenly will go away as the "incentives" are removed from the state budget.

 

There is work out there. The trick is keeping up with it, but more importantly, it's up to YOU to build relationships with a few people who like you and like what you do so that YOU are their first call no matter where the work is. Crews are flown/driven to distant locations all the time so to keep working means finding a way to be a part of those select crew who get to do that. Otherwise, it'a all about hoping that there will be enough work to keep you going all year so you won't have to fill in the non-movie days by having to say "Hello, welcome to Walmart!"

[Markshaw]

I had never seen State incentives as a bad thing. But reading your post I can see that having films dispersed to all four corners could be a bad thing. Keeping things centralized would be more prudent.

I also agree that if you truly wish to succeed in this (or indeed any) business you must be prepared to use your initiative and relocate. You must find work, work rarely finds you.

[Brian Dzyak]

I had never seen State incentives as a bad thing. But reading your post I can see that having films dispersed to all four corners could be a bad thing. Keeping things centralized would be more prudent.

I also agree that if you truly wish to succeed in this (or indeed any) business you must be prepared to use your initiative and relocate. You must find work, work rarely finds you.

 

 

Exactly. The incentive scheme more or less sets people up to assume that "the government" is going to bribe Corporations into bringing work to any particular area. In my mind, anyway, that's not a very wise way to approach a career. Sure, it might work for a while, but as we've seen time and time again, the incentives DO go away so it's best for aspiring "filmmakers" to establish a life/career where the work LIKELY will be for a long time as opposed to assuming that it'll always be in a location that is only a location because of tax incentives.

[Brian Hulnick]

Incentives are solely dependent on the powers that be in the particular area. Powers shift, incentives get lost and the problem is once those incentives go, so does studio interest.

[Markshaw]

In my experience if you become too dependent on incentives/ handouts you will be hit doubly hard when they end, and invariably they do.

[Brian Hulnick]

I say bring Movie making back to Hollywood, where it belongs. Not bumf@ck, South Dakota where it don't.

 

No disrespect to all the folks living in Bumf@ck, South Dakota. I hear it's really nice there.