Ultra16 created by just filing the gate .7mm on both sides?

Ryan Andrzejewski · July 3, 2009

I'm interested int he K3 but want to go with Ultra 16mm. I've only seen posts having to do with Super 16 conversion. Is there a place I can research Ultra 16 for the K3? Also, does the Ultra 16 format require a different film or just standard 16mm film?

Anyone heard of a crystal sync motor for the K3?

And...when all is said and done, should I just keep my Bolex H16 Rex and put the money into it instead of the K3?

Thanks.

Luke Hill · July 4, 2009

You should be able to find some posts about Ultra 16 by doing a search in the general 16mm forum. There's not a ton of information out there, and I'm certainly no expert (I'm waiting on my first conversion right now), but my understanding is that it basically just entails widening the gate a little on both sides.

Here's some good information about the format itself:

http://marylandfilms.com/16mm-super16-ultra16-compared.html

Ryan Andrzejewski · July 4, 2009

You should be able to find some posts about Ultra 16 by doing a search in the general 16mm forum. There's not a ton of information out there, and I'm certainly no expert (I'm waiting on my first conversion right now), but my understanding is that it basically just entails widening the gate a little on both sides.

Here's some good information about the format itself:

http://marylandfilms.com/16mm-super16-ultra16-compared.html

Thank you Luke,

I've seen and bookmarked that site, very informative. Where are you having your conversion done? And is it a K3 Ultra 16 conversion?

Freya Black · July 4, 2009

I'm interested int he K3 but want to go with Ultra 16mm. I've only seen posts having to do with Super 16 conversion. Is there a place I can research Ultra 16 for the K3? Also, does the Ultra 16 format require a different film or just standard 16mm film?
Anyone heard of a crystal sync motor for the K3?

And...when all is said and done, should I just keep my Bolex H16 Rex and put the money into it instead of the K3?

Thanks.

Why not just go with S16 for either the bolex or K3? They both take interchangable lenses.

Do you have some old wide angle lenses that would not be S16 compatible?

Ultra16 is not as standard a format as S16.

Long ago there was a crystal motor for the K3 but it is long gone and I've never seen one for sale.

There are of course crystal motors for the bolex.

Both S16 and ultra16 can both use single perf 16mm. Ultra might be able to use double perf 16mm too but I'm not sure how available that is these days.

Luke Hill · July 4, 2009

Thank you Luke,
I've seen and bookmarked that site, very informative. Where are you having your conversion done? And is it a K3 Ultra 16 conversion?

I have a CP16r and I'm having the conversion done by Bernie at Super 16mm: http://www.super16inc.com/

They're great, very friendly and very affordable (not to mention Bernie's an Academy Award Nominee!).

RE: the Ultra 16 / Super 16 comparison - for me there's no question that all other things being equal, Super 16 is the preferred format, however the availability of decent (albeit limited) processing and telecine options coupled with the greatly reduced conversion price and the ability to continue to use my current lenses made Ultra the obvious choice in my particular situation.

Freya Black · July 4, 2009

I have a CP16r and I'm having the conversion done by Bernie at Super 16mm: http://www.super16inc.com/

They're great, very friendly and very affordable (not to mention Bernie's an Academy Award Nominee!).

RE: the Ultra 16 / Super 16 comparison - for me there's no question that all other things being equal, Super 16 is the preferred format, however the availability of decent (albeit limited) processing and telecine options coupled with the greatly reduced conversion price and the ability to continue to use my current lenses made Ultra the obvious choice in my particular situation.

In theory you should be able to process at any lab that does 16mm. It's the same filmstock but yes telecine is a bit more scary. You probably also give up the chance of being to optically blow up to 35mm film, but realistically thats never going to happen anyway.

I know in your situation they were reluctant to do a s16 mod, but with the K3 I can't really see any issues and you might as well go with S16. Thats the way I would see it.

love

Freya

Scott Bryant · July 4, 2009

Had my NPR converted by Bernie. Excellent work by the way and great results. If you ask him to he will widen the gate as much as possible to get the most bang for your buck. From what I understand the problem with the labs are that you have to use a lab that uses rubber wheels to advance the film instead of sprocket driven (someone correct me if i'm wrong) b/c it can damage the image found inbetween sprockets. Cinelicious sends there film to Alpha Cine and I've had good results with both. There are some other labs I believe I heard that Cine Lab is capable of processing as well.

Something also to consider (according to Bernie, he'll probably respond as well), you can still modify your camera to super16 AFTER an ultra16 conversion if you aren't pleased. The gate is just filed more in a different direction. If you just want regular 16 that can still be accomplised with an ultra16 gate, it's just a matter of where you set the aspect ratio in the telecine.

I'm pretty sure this is all accurate if not someone can correct me or a quick search will point you in the right direction.

I'm sure Bernie can transfer a K3 to ultra16 and I highly recommend his service. Very professional. Extremely nice. Quick and knows exactly how to make your camera run the best.

Luke Hill · July 4, 2009

I know in your situation they were reluctant to do a s16 mod, but with the K3 I can't really see any issues and you might as well go with S16. Thats the way I would see it.

The places I spoke with weren't at all reluctant to convert the CP16r to Super 16, for me the only issue was the approximately four-fold increase in price.

Evan Ferrario · August 3, 2009

with cinelicious, Ultra16 is finally a viable format.

It is a fairly easy mod, I have an eclair acl and a russian 16mm camera in ultra 16mm. The eclair I bought with the modification already done and the russian one I did myself with a friend who is a mechanical engineer. If you do it yourself, check that the filed edges are not scratching the film. The first time I shot with my russian 16mm, there were little balls of gum from the film which had been scrapped off by the edges, after we filed the edges down more and checked them for scratching, it worked great.