Jump to content

So... there is a 7D now...


John Hoffler

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 66
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

at last 25fps!!

 

What I couldn't find out through that article is whether you have to still freeze the aperture.....?

 

I think the issue of the difficulty in the practicality of pulling focus is still apparent...

 

The article mentioned 24fps. Great stuff!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I couldn't find out through that article is whether you have to still freeze the aperture.....?

 

Given that they came out with a firmwire update for the 5D M2 that allows you to manually select shutter speed and aperture for the video, I would assume not; why would they make the same mistake twice? Then again...maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given that they came out with a firmwire update for the 5D M2 that allows you to manually select shutter speed and aperture for the video, I would assume not; why would they make the same mistake twice? Then again...maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

 

" Users can set exposure and frame rate – with options for 24 fps to create that cinematic feel."

 

whatever that means...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The small APC size of the sensor means this camera is not really a step forward for digital cinematography. Still, the addition of 24p/25p using the same processor chip seems to suggest that canon could soon produce a full frame model of some sort that is capable of the same useful frame rate. The 7D however uses two chips in a "dual processor" arrangement. The 5D uses only one processor.

 

Looking forward to the day when all companies get on the larger sensor bandwagon. The ability of the 5D to shoot in low light is astounding. Almost everything else about the camera in the context of digital cinematography is frustrating however.

 

This camera is a strong competitor for the nikon D90 - it shoots full HD and is in a similar price range, as I understand it.

 

With luck, maybe this camera proves that the 5d will be able to shoot 24/25p with a firmware update. Any guesses? it doesn't seem as though the task of shooting 24p would be split between two processors when one is capable of handling a faster rate. What DOES the second process do, anyway - is it possible to determine, or speculate?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given that they came out with a firmwire update for the 5D M2 that allows you to manually select shutter speed and aperture for the video, I would assume not; why would they make the same mistake twice? Then again...maybe I'm giving them too much credit.

 

 

Aha!

It was prior to that firmware update that I lost interest then.......I retract my comment.

 

Saul - from what you and Elliot say I should imagine that manual control would come as standard on the 7d.

 

Does anyone know if it this 7d has inherited the 5dII's rolling shutter problem?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The small APC size of the sensor means this camera is not really a step forward for digital cinematography.

 

The size this particular APS-C sensor (21.95 mm × 16.00 mm) is roughly equivalent to 4-perf 35mm image size (22.3 x 14.9 mm), though most APS-C sensors are size-dependent brand to brand. Why is bigger better anyway? What is wrong with smaller sensors / image areas? Does every project need to be shot on S-35 sized-imagers?

 

Does every camera released these days must be "a step forward" in digital camera technology, whatever that means, to be a useful camera?

 

Since the 5D mk II's chip size is Vista Vision-sized, must the new Canon offering be IMAX-sized to be a useful camera and "a step forward in digital cinematography"?

 

Help me understand, please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The size this particular APS-C sensor (21.95 mm × 16.00 mm) is roughly equivalent to 4-perf 35mm image size (22.3 x 14.9 mm) . . .

 

Sorry, I inverted the numbers, it should read:

 

The size this particular APS-C sensor (22.3 x 14.9 mm) is roughly equivalent to 4-perf 35mm image size (21.95 × 16.00 mm)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bigger is BETTER....apparently

 

Hey Serge,

 

It says here these cams have manual controls:

 

"The exposure of the movie can be controlled in Manual mode allowing full control of shutter speeds and apertures. It is possible to select frame rates from: 30 (29.97), 25, and 24 (23.976), with 60 (59.94) and 50 available at 720p. ISO can be set automatically or manually in the range (100-6400) and is expandable to 12800. EOS 7D also allows users to trim and cut their movies."

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos7d.asp

 

I would imagine the rolling shutter is still a problem, as most CMOS chip cameras (such as this one) suffer from it to some degree or another. . . Mere speculation, of course.

Edited by Saul Rodgar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is wrong with smaller sensors / image areas? Does every project need to be shot on S-35 sized-imagers?

 

Well, when you examine a digital image taken with an APS chip @ 400 ISO and see that it looks virtually equivilant to a full frame digital image taken @ 1600 ISO...you wonder why you ever used the former to begin with; at least that was my experience when I upgraded my Canon Rebel XTi to a 5D. Also you have to take into account the myriad of amateurs concerned with the all-mighty "CROP FACTOR!" :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Serge,

 

It says here these cams have manual controls:

 

"The exposure of the movie can be controlled in Manual mode allowing full control of shutter speeds and apertures. It is possible to select frame rates from: 30 (29.97), 25, and 24 (23.976), with 60 (59.94) and 50 available at 720p. ISO can be set automatically or manually in the range (100-6400) and is expandable to 12800. EOS 7D also allows users to trim and cut their movies."

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos7d.asp

 

I would imagine the rolling shutter is still a problem, as most CMOS chip cameras (such as this one) suffer from it to some degree or another. . . Mere speculation, of course.

 

completely missed that....feeling a bit dumb right now.

Thanks for the heads up Saul. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
The size this particular APS-C sensor (22.3 x 14.9 mm) is roughly equivalent to 4-perf 35mm image size (21.95 × 16.00 mm)

 

I think you probably have the 4 perf Academy numbers. The 7D sensor is a little smaller than Super-35 4 perf, which is 24 x 18 mm. That's good, since you could put a PL mount on it and use all the S-35 glass that's out there.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
I would imagine the rolling shutter is still a problem, as most CMOS chip cameras (such as this one) suffer from it to some degree or another. . . Mere speculation, of course.

 

Rollingness is a function of how fast they can read out the chip. If they can do 60P, then at lower rates they can read at the same speed, and pause between frames, which is closer to how film cameras work. Of course, they could also have chosen to keep continuous rolling, and just slow down the clock. Let's hope they were smart enough not to.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does every camera released these days must be "a step forward" in digital camera technology, whatever that means, to be a useful camera?

 

Good Point. I think these camera manufacturers are taking steps in the right direction in terms of Affordability. Companies like RED and Canon are tapping a large market with their AltHD cameras. Sony and Panasonic should really jump on the bandwagon. When you can get this 7D for roughly the price of an A series P2 card it really makes you wonder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These DSLRs that shoot video are interesting harbingers of what you get with a larger sensor -even though they are only reading every third line - still, you get a nice smooth HD image and great low light performance. The canon 5d mk2 has a still camera's "full frame" sensor that lets a lot of light in. Currently it is an envelope-pusher in that regard, and has been used to remarkable effect in short films and music videos, etc. If you were forced to shoot a documentary in a coal mine with only a few candles to light with, you might pick the 5dmk2 over any other camera out there today. But it wouldn't be fun. In most other regards, the camera is crippled for use in most professional cinema jobs. But it does serve to prove what is possible if you build a camera with that sort of "bigger is better" philosophy. A large part of the "dreaded video look" has always had to do with the fact that there was always too much DOF. The 5Dmk2 looks a lot like 35mm film looks to the average viewer simply because the lenses perform in a similar fashion when you shoot for that look.

 

The 7D camera has a smaller sensor, and while there does seem to be some technical advancements - the recording takes place at a higher bitrate, for example, and of course the unit shoots 24p and 25p, the actual performance of the unit is not going to be more impressive at low light levels due to the smaller sensor. So in that regard it isn't a step ahead, it is a refinement of what might work for certain situations. For example it will possibly be suited for adaptation with cine lenses, which means you might actually be able to pull focus decently well when you shoot with the 7D. The sensor's smaller size may also better mimic the look of 35mm film camera's DOF look. So there is some sort of window here to explore. One might hope that makers of pro-sumer camcorders are taking notice. I'm sure that Jim Jannard is taking notice.

 

There's not enough information out there to say much besides speculation as to what this camera can and will do. Someone on another forum called a canon tech support number and was told that the camera would output full HD to a monitor when recording, which would be a huge improvement over the 5D mk2, which has VGA standards exported to any display used. It's probably untrue. We just don't know yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, when you examine a digital image taken with an APS chip @ 400 ISO and see that it looks virtually equivilant to a full frame digital image taken @ 1600 ISO...you wonder why you ever used the former to begin with; at least that was my experience when I upgraded my Canon Rebel XTi to a 5D.

 

If one is going to compare the sensor in the XTi and the 5D on a size only basis, without taking into account other camera variables like sensor resolution, picture processing algorithms, encoding, actual sensor manufacturing technology, cost of the actual cameras being compared, etc then it is going to be like comparing apples and oranges.

 

At least one has to compare two cameras that are in the same ballpark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Forum Sponsors

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CINELEASE

CineLab

Metropolis Post

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Film Gears

Visual Products

BOKEH RENTALS

Cinematography Books and Gear



×
×
  • Create New...