35mm Blow Up

[Corbett Jones]

I'm getting ready to start a project where we're going to do a 35mm blow-up. I've been trying to get through to someone at Fotokem all afternoon but they're not returning my calls. Weak. Just curious as to what people have paid per foot for their S16mm to 35mm blow ups before. Thanks.

[steve laramie]

expect 150 per minute.

[Jason M Silverman]

I am working on a project which will hopefully end in a 35mm blow up. The question I'm debating at the moment is whether to go the S-16 to 35 route, or to shoot on HD and convert to 35.

 

At my present estimate, for a roughly 90-minute film, the film costs for shooting on s16 will run about 74,310, while the cost of HD to 35 is closer to 30,000. So, in theory, HD is considerably cheaper, particularly for a total budget around 200,000.

 

However, I am concerned that the final print will end up with a digital look, rather than the classic filmic look which I would prefer. I've never been a fan of digital mediums for anything. I've even considered Super-8 for this project (but rejected it).

 

Thoughts? Is the cost savings worth it?

[Daniel Lee]

I am working on a project which will hopefully end in a 35mm blow up. The question I'm debating at the moment is whether to go the S-16 to 35 route, or to shoot on HD and convert to 35.

 

At my present estimate, for a roughly 90-minute film, the film costs for shooting on s16 will run about 74,310, while the cost of HD to 35 is closer to 30,000. So, in theory, HD is considerably cheaper, particularly for a total budget around 200,000.

 

However, I am concerned that the final print will end up with a digital look, rather than the classic filmic look which I would prefer. I've never been a fan of digital mediums for anything. I've even considered Super-8 for this project (but rejected it).

 

Thoughts? Is the cost savings worth it?

 

Considered 2-perf 35mm?

[Vincent Sweeney]

How on earth are you getting $74K for S16?? What does that include? I just budgeted a feature not long ago for 16mm, scanned out to HD, for $20k and that included camera rental.

[Jason M Silverman]

How on earth are you getting $74K for S16?? What does that include? I just budgeted a feature not long ago for 16mm, scanned out to HD, for $20k and that included camera rental.

 

 

The 74K is based on all the costs associated with using Super 16, from the stock, to its processing, transfer, coloring, and blow-up. Perhaps I've over-estimated the cost? I own a camera, and the DP has an HD cam, so rental isn't an issue.

 

Isn't all 35 double-perforated?

[Chris Burke]

all 35mm has perfs on both sides, yes, however 2 perf refers to the amount of film that is pulled down after exposure. 2 perf uses half the amount of film, and is much closer in price to super 16 although more. It also is of higher quality than s16 especially when shooting for 2.40 and doing a DI. Super 16 is cheaper, not 74k, more in the 20k to 40k range. Although even cheaper deals can be had.

[Jason M Silverman]

Thanks for that. I'll have to see if any 2-perf cameras are available in Ireland to compare costs; that's and interesting option I was unaware of. (I'll also run the S-16 numbers again, see where I went wrong).

[Richard Tuohy]

Thanks for that. I'll have to see if any 2-perf cameras are available in Ireland to compare costs; that's and interesting option I was unaware of. (I'll also run the S-16 numbers again, see where I went wrong).

As I read the replies to your question Jason (though you have hijacked a post from someone else by asking it) those that have replied might not have included the fact that you are after a blow-up to 35. But further, not being in the USA will make a big difference to the price as well. Here in Australia the costs for stock and processing are much higher (about double) what they are in the USA.

Perhaps consider sending the film there for processing.

richard

[K Borowski]

I wouldn't dream of shipping film to the U.S. from Ireland, Australia, unless I flew with it sitting on my lap. At least if there were an accident, I wouldn't live to see it probably.

 

 

I'd at least get the neg. and some protection done locally. Richard surprised to see there is that much of a price disparity. Double cost, really? Granted film isn't coated in Australia (although Japan is rather a bit closer, probably about the same distance as Rochester is from LA). Are there sever environmental regulations that make processing costs higher? Or is it just a far smaller demand for processing "down under" that accounts for that price disparity?

[Daniel Lee]

As I read the replies to your question Jason (though you have hijacked a post from someone else by asking it) those that have replied might not have included the fact that you are after a blow-up to 35. But further, not being in the USA will make a big difference to the price as well. Here in Australia the costs for stock and processing are much higher (about double) what they are in the USA.

Perhaps consider sending the film there for processing.

richard

 

 

O/T: Richard I just got back this very second from Daylesford!

[Daniel Lee]

I wouldn't dream of shipping film to the U.S. from Ireland, Australia, unless I flew with it sitting on my lap. At least if there were an accident, I wouldn't live to see it probably.

 

 

I'd at least get the neg. and some protection done locally. Richard surprised to see there is that much of a price disparity. Double cost, really? Granted film isn't coated in Australia (although Japan is rather a bit closer, probably about the same distance as Rochester is from LA). Are there sever environmental regulations that make processing costs higher? Or is it just a far smaller demand for processing "down under" that accounts for that price disparity?

 

Chemistry isn't too bad, starter price is a joke though, price on the right is GST inclusive.

KODAK ECN-2 Kit Chemicals

5159942 ECN-2 Kit Prebath and Replenisher 66.6 litres $28.00 $2.80 $30.80

5159959* ECN-2 Kit Color Developer Starter 200 litres $69.00 $6.90 $75.90

5160064 ECN-2 Kit Color Developer Replenisher, Part A 100 litres $24.00 $2.40 $26.40

5160072 ECN-2 Kit Color Developer Replenisher, Part B 100 litres $104.00 $10.40 $114.40

5159975 ECN-2 Kit Bleach and Replenisher 33.3 litres $58.00 $5.80 $63.80

5159983 ECN-2 Kit Fixer and Replenisher 66.6 litres $35.00 $3.50 $38.50

 

 

KODAK ECP-2B Kit Chemicals

5159991 ECN-2/ECP-2B Kit Final Rinse and Replenisher 800 litres $58.00 $5.80 $63.80

5159967 ECN-2/ECP-2B Kit Stop Batch and Replenisher 200 litres $18.00 $1.80 $19.80

5160007* ECP-2B Kit Color Developer Replenisher, Part A 100 litres $36.00 $3.60 $39.60

5160015* ECP-2B Kit Color Developer Replenisher, Part B&C 100 litres $48.00 $4.80 $52.80

5160023* ECP-2B Kit Bleach Replenisher 33.3 litres $92.00 $9.20 $101.20

5160031* ECP-2B Kit Color Developer Starter 200 litres $33.00 $3.30 $36.30

5256334* ECP-2B Kit Sound Track Developer 2x5 litres $17.00 $1.70 $18.70

 

 

 

There's a special on 400ft of 35mm atm - $300

http://www.sound-vision.com.au/products/index.html

[Daniel Lee]

I wouldn't dream of shipping film to the U.S. from Ireland, Australia, unless I flew with it sitting on my lap. At least if there were an accident, I wouldn't live to see it probably.

 

 

I'd at least get the neg. and some protection done locally. Richard surprised to see there is that much of a price disparity. Double cost, really? Granted film isn't coated in Australia (although Japan is rather a bit closer, probably about the same distance as Rochester is from LA). Are there sever environmental regulations that make processing costs higher? Or is it just a far smaller demand for processing "down under" that accounts for that price disparity?

 

Chemistry isn't too bad, starter price is a joke though, price on the right is GST inclusive.

KODAK ECN-2 Kit Chemicals

5159942 ECN-2 Kit Prebath and Replenisher 66.6 litres $28.00 $2.80 $30.80

5159959* ECN-2 Kit Color Developer Starter 200 litres $69.00 $6.90 $75.90

5160064 ECN-2 Kit Color Developer Replenisher, Part A 100 litres $24.00 $2.40 $26.40

5160072 ECN-2 Kit Color Developer Replenisher, Part B 100 litres $104.00 $10.40 $114.40

5159975 ECN-2 Kit Bleach and Replenisher 33.3 litres $58.00 $5.80 $63.80

5159983 ECN-2 Kit Fixer and Replenisher 66.6 litres $35.00 $3.50 $38.50

 

 

KODAK ECP-2B Kit Chemicals

5159991 ECN-2/ECP-2B Kit Final Rinse and Replenisher 800 litres $58.00 $5.80 $63.80

5159967 ECN-2/ECP-2B Kit Stop Batch and Replenisher 200 litres $18.00 $1.80 $19.80

5160007* ECP-2B Kit Color Developer Replenisher, Part A 100 litres $36.00 $3.60 $39.60

5160015* ECP-2B Kit Color Developer Replenisher, Part B&C 100 litres $48.00 $4.80 $52.80

5160023* ECP-2B Kit Bleach Replenisher 33.3 litres $92.00 $9.20 $101.20

5160031* ECP-2B Kit Color Developer Starter 200 litres $33.00 $3.30 $36.30

5256334* ECP-2B Kit Sound Track Developer 2x5 litres $17.00 $1.70 $18.70

 

 

 

There's a special on 400ft of 35mm atm - $300

http://www.sound-vision.com.au/products/index.html

[Jason M Silverman]

For buying and processing, I'd have to go to either New York or London; there are no labs in Ireland which do 16 or 35, so far as I'm aware (though there are a few which can handle super-8). I'd consider taking it to London myself.

[Chris Burke]

For buying and processing, I'd have to go to either New York or London; there are no labs in Ireland which do 16 or 35, so far as I'm aware (though there are a few which can handle super-8). I'd consider taking it to London myself.

 

 

it totally missed me that you were in Ireland, that you listed prices in dollars furthered the confusion, for me at least. Have you looked at the complete16 deals? the price isn't bad anyway, but for an SD transfer. maybe they will do a deal for the whole package, stock, p&t, DI. It's worth a phone call. going to the US for lab services is going to be cheaper,you can get about .50 per foot for stock,p&t(best light HD) but it is in the US and damaging the film could be too large of a risk

Edited July 24, 2011 by Chris Burke

[Richard Tuohy]

I wouldn't dream of shipping film to the U.S. from Ireland, Australia, unless I flew with it sitting on my lap. At least if there were an accident, I wouldn't live to see it probably.

 

 

I'd at least get the neg. and some protection done locally. Richard surprised to see there is that much of a price disparity. Double cost, really? Granted film isn't coated in Australia (although Japan is rather a bit closer, probably about the same distance as Rochester is from LA). Are there sever environmental regulations that make processing costs higher? Or is it just a far smaller demand for processing "down under" that accounts for that price disparity?

 

g'day karl,

regarding prices, for instance 16mm colour neg processing is about Aus 30 cents per foot. Just checked Spectra's price and its US 13 cents. Of course, go back ten years and 30 Aus cents was worth about 21 us cents. But now it is about 32 us cents. In the usa you have this funny old fashioned thing called competition. But really, it comes down to volumes. Everything film is cheaper in the USA. Kodak Aus charges a lot more for stock than Kodak USA too. Here 100' of colour neg 16mm costs about $58.

The fluctuations of the dollar are a big factor here. Companies can't change their prices up and down all the time. I remember 30+ years ago our dollar was worth about US$1.20. It went down from there gradually over the next twenty years to as low as 49 cents in 2001. But the labs haven't changed their prices much since then. Their costs aren't directly related to the exchange rate...

[Jason M Silverman]

Thanks for all the help. The Complete 16 deal doesn't sound so bad, actually. I also found a place in London which rents out Aaton Penelopes, so that could be an option as well. Since I can take the ferry between UK and Ireland, protecting the film shouldn't be an issue other than logistical. I'll rework the numbers and see where that leaves things.

 

The shipping to the US actually adds a massive (unknown) cost, as the Irish customs like to slap huge import duties on film, both stock and processed stock. The last time I tried--for just a test Super-8 shoot--I had to pay over 150 euro when the raw arrived and another 150 euro when it came back processed. I'd be more likely to try to go through the UK for that reason.

[Jason M Silverman]

Thanks for all the help. The Complete 16 deal doesn't sound so bad, actually. I also found a place in London which rents out Aaton Penelopes, so that could be an option as well. Since I can take the ferry between UK and Ireland, protecting the film shouldn't be an issue other than logistical. I'll rework the numbers and see where that leaves things.

 

The shipping to the US actually adds a massive (unknown) cost, as the Irish customs like to slap huge import duties on film, both stock and processed stock. The last time I tried--for just a test Super-8 shoot--I had to pay over 150 euro when the raw arrived and another 150 euro when it came back processed. I'd be more likely to try to go through the UK for that reason.

 

I've just done a (very very rough) price comparison between Super-16 to 35, 2-perf 35 to 35, and HD to 35mm. It was hard to ball-park, since most of the costs are variable by lab, etc, but this is the rough result I got for an assumed 90-minute final time and a shooting ratio of roughly 5.3:1, full cost (including camera/lens rentals) to a 35mm print:

 

Super-16: 69,384.00

2-perf 35: 96,673.58

HD: 114,350.00

 

The HD camera rental cost actually appears to negate some of the other cost benefits.

[David Mullen ASC]

I've just done a (very very rough) price comparison between Super-16 to 35, 2-perf 35 to 35, and HD to 35mm. It was hard to ball-park, since most of the costs are variable by lab, etc, but this is the rough result I got for an assumed 90-minute final time and a shooting ratio of roughly 5.3:1, full cost (including camera/lens rentals) to a 35mm print:

 

Super-16: 69,384.00

2-perf 35: 96,673.58

HD: 114,350.00

 

The HD camera rental cost actually appears to negate some of the other cost benefits.

 

As the shooting ratio goes up, the cost benefit will favor the HD camera though. And the final cost will be getting your movie to HD because you aren't going to want it to only exist on film.