npr super16 specs

kevin jackman · December 17, 2009

hey folks, im sure the chance of me getting this info is small but i have to ask. i have an npr that i would like to have converted to super16. i have a friend that is an anal machinist that could probably convert it but he needs to know every detailregarding what parts need work and to what specs. does anybody by chance know all of the specs?

Oliver Gläser · December 17, 2009

the lens mount has to be moved over by 1mm on the same side as the gate is milled out by 2mm (the side opposite to the pulldown claw. The ground glass should also be remarked (this can be done with a very sharp mechanical pencil) and moved over 1mm to center it into the new frame. The magazines can (but don't have to ) have their rollers and sprocket wheels turned to widen the area that doesn't touch the negative and polished. and thats pretty much the basics. A good machinist should be able to move the lens mount if he/she thinks it through. The gate is relatively easy to do as is the ground glass. The mags are a little bit more work, but I suggest switching the camera over first, shooting test footage with all your mags and then checking to see if the mags scratch or pressure the new super area of the negative. I am all for doing the work myself if I think there is a reasonable chance of success! Super 16ing Eclairs is not the toughest thing in the world in my experience so...

Good luck.

Oliver Glaser

kevin jackman · December 18, 2009

the lens mount has to be moved over by 1mm on the same side as the gate is milled out by 2mm (the side opposite to the pulldown claw. The ground glass should also be remarked (this can be done with a very sharp mechanical pencil) and moved over 1mm to center it into the new frame. The magazines can (but don't have to ) have their rollers and sprocket wheels turned to widen the area that doesn't touch the negative and polished. and thats pretty much the basics. A good machinist should be able to move the lens mount if he/she thinks it through. The gate is relatively easy to do as is the ground glass. The mags are a little bit more work, but I suggest switching the camera over first, shooting test footage with all your mags and then checking to see if the mags scratch or pressure the new super area of the negative. I am all for doing the work myself if I think there is a reasonable chance of success! Super 16ing Eclairs is not the toughest thing in the world in my experience so...
Good luck.

Oliver Glaser

thanks, thats what i was thinking was involved. i guess the rollers need about 2mm taken off. did you do a conversion or know somebody who did?

Cary Sato Lee · December 21, 2009

thanks, thats what i was thinking was involved. i guess the rollers need about 2mm taken off. did you do a conversion or know somebody who did?

Before you do anything, you should consult a specialist that does this type of work all the time. They may be able to guide you in the right direction as to whether to convert you camera to S-16 vs Ultra-16 format. I used Bernie O'Doherty at www.super16inc.com. He did my bolex and recommended the Ultra 16 format for my camera, saved me a lot of money. Having a professional advise who specializes in Eclair cameras and get a free quote doesn't hurt.

kevin jackman · December 24, 2009

Before you do anything, you should consult a specialist that does this type of work all the time. They may be able to guide you in the right direction as to whether to convert you camera to S-16 vs Ultra-16 format. I used Bernie O'Doherty at www.super16inc.com. He did my bolex and recommended the Ultra 16 format for my camera, saved me a lot of money. Having a professional advise who specializes in Eclair cameras and get a free quote doesn't hurt.

i did get a quote from bernie and trust him. he is a fabulous guy who is helpfull and is the first stop for me to go regarding a conversion. the cost to super16 as just really high and i think there is too much of a loss in quality to go to ultra16. i think ultra16 is the ay to go ith cameras that cant go super16. people are also used to dealing with super16 in the industry so no issues with telecine etc. i would pay him for a detailed guide on what to do exactly, thats for sure.

Joshua Hill · December 24, 2009

Kevin,

I will say that I'm currently going through the "should I go Ultra-16" debate myself with my Eclair ACL. But I don't know what you mean by "loss of quality." Yes, you reduce your ability to do your processing/telecine universally, but there are still some great places to do it at (such as AlphaCine and Cinelicious, which offer fair prices on processing/telecine of Ultra16).

I would personally say do NOT get your camera converted to Super16 from someone who is not a proper camera tech. There is more to it than just milling a gate, and for someone not experienced moving the lens placement is going to be more of a challenge than you think. There is a reason that a Super16 conversion costs so much more than an Ultra16 conversion; if it were as easy as that, the price would be lower. If it were easy, people wouldn't specialize in certain cameras. Calling around about Super16 conversion prices, there were numerous places that would not even touch an ACL because they are, to quote, "not familiar with it."

No matter how careful your machinist friend is, if he makes a tiny, 1mm mistake on any part of the process you could very well end up with a completely worthless camera. There are lots of things in this world that are like that: sure, you could find a seamstress to sew up a wound, but a doctor is better suited for the job.

After all, will your friend have the knowledge to check and modify all of your magazines to Super16? The knowledge to do a scratch test and the experience to hunt down an remedy the precise piece that is making the scratch? I would imagine, though trial and error, maybe he would; but that's why you pay a camera tech: they have the experience so that the work they are doing is never trial and error, and if something goes horribly wrong they have the know-how to improvise.

I'm like you: I have a camera and I want to shoot with it, but I also want a few bells and whistles too: a bigger frame area; better lenses; a better lens mount; etc. And I'm trying to figure out what matters most to me, whether that be buying lenses instead of getting an Ultra16 conversion, or using the zoom that comes on my camera and having it checked over before running film through it.

I think I may have gone on a little bit of a tirade, but I think the odds of having someone else do a successful Super16 conversion (or even a successful Ultra16 conversion) who is not a camera tech is slim and you're going to be setting yourself up for grief by putting your precision machinery in inexperienced hands.

kevin jackman · December 25, 2009

Kevin,

I will say that I'm currently going through the "should I go Ultra-16" debate myself with my Eclair ACL. But I don't know what you mean by "loss of quality." Yes, you reduce your ability to do your processing/telecine universally, but there are still some great places to do it at (such as AlphaCine and Cinelicious, which offer fair prices on processing/telecine of Ultra16).

I would personally say do NOT get your camera converted to Super16 from someone who is not a proper camera tech. There is more to it than just milling a gate, and for someone not experienced moving the lens placement is going to be more of a challenge than you think. There is a reason that a Super16 conversion costs so much more than an Ultra16 conversion; if it were as easy as that, the price would be lower. If it were easy, people wouldn't specialize in certain cameras. Calling around about Super16 conversion prices, there were numerous places that would not even touch an ACL because they are, to quote, "not familiar with it."

No matter how careful your machinist friend is, if he makes a tiny, 1mm mistake on any part of the process you could very well end up with a completely worthless camera. There are lots of things in this world that are like that: sure, you could find a seamstress to sew up a wound, but a doctor is better suited for the job.

After all, will your friend have the knowledge to check and modify all of your magazines to Super16? The knowledge to do a scratch test and the experience to hunt down an remedy the precise piece that is making the scratch? I would imagine, though trial and error, maybe he would; but that's why you pay a camera tech: they have the experience so that the work they are doing is never trial and error, and if something goes horribly wrong they have the know-how to improvise.

I'm like you: I have a camera and I want to shoot with it, but I also want a few bells and whistles too: a bigger frame area; better lenses; a better lens mount; etc. And I'm trying to figure out what matters most to me, whether that be buying lenses instead of getting an Ultra16 conversion, or using the zoom that comes on my camera and having it checked over before running film through it.

I think I may have gone on a little bit of a tirade, but I think the odds of having someone else do a successful Super16 conversion (or even a successful Ultra16 conversion) who is not a camera tech is slim and you're going to be setting yourself up for grief by putting your precision machinery in inexperienced hands.

hey josh, not a tirade. thanks for your opinion. i dont want you tot hink you shouldnt say anything because i feel a bit of a dufus even considering what im saying. it's just a thought at this point. my friend is a weird sort of guy, self taught machinist that works on lotuses which was self taught, repairs and makes parts to aircraft standards which is overkill, takes apart f series nikon mechanical cameras for service and repair, and the list goes on. he's like the rain man of service and repair. this is the only reason i would ever think of such a thing. i thought ultra16 but didnt like the lack of post facilities. the increase in image quality compared to super16 isn't nearly as good. from the information i gathered it appears that super16 has three times the extra image area compared to ultra16. it makes a big difference in image quality. this sounds bad but the npr's go so cheaply i thought the worst case is i can get another one! the thing that i really anted in my current kit is the tobin motor. mabye if i find a cheap npr ill get rain man to give it a go. once again, thanks for the thoughts and i hope i dont look too stupid.