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Why isn't the industry more represented?


Matthew W. Phillips

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In America, approx. 13.5% of the country is African American. Although I don't have any empirical data, it seems unlikely that 13.5% of film crew members are black.

 

Also, approx. 50% or more of the US is Christian. I also doubt that 50% of crew members are Christian. Even acting wise, it seems doubtful that that many are Christian seeing as how so many movies display sentiment that would be contradictory to Christianity (even in a positive light.)

 

The nation is roughly half women, yet women do not make up 50% of crew members.

 

I'm just curious if anyone has any ideas or insight into why the film industry, particularly in the areas of the crew, are not more representative of the population as a whole?

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I think largely because interest in the creation of media doesn't cut across all demographics equally. I also think social circles, regardless of who they are (religious, social or ethnic) dictate who gets hired for whatever job. Not in the form of direct discrimination (although that does happen), but more or less in what your social circle values or exposes itself to.

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I think largely because interest in the creation of media doesn't cut across all demographics equally. I also think social circles, regardless of who they are (religious, social or ethnic) dictate who gets hired for whatever job. Not in the form of direct discrimination (although that does happen), but more or less in what your social circle values or exposes itself to.

 

Interesting enough is that, in other fields, this would be considered discrimination hands down. I'm sure it happens in other industries but there is still tokenism that occurs in most other industries. The film industry seems exempt from all equity, labor, or any other laws.

 

Not sure I buy the whole "interest isn't cut evenly" argument.

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Uh Oh, one of "these" threads. Let's see how many posts it will go before it gets shut down?

 

Hmmmm, I'll bet 16. This one doesn't count. :blink:

 

Maybe 16 is overly optimistic? We've never been able to have a rational discussion on topics like this on this forum.

 

My prediction is that some one will insist on a "quota system." Then a white male will object to a "quota system" and things will quickly spiral down hill from there :lol:

 

R,

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My prediction is that some one will insist on a "quota system." Then a white male will object to a "quota system" and things will quickly spiral down hill from there :lol:

 

Well, the thing is, if people did the "right" thing, laws would not have to exist. There obviously should be no use for a quota system, however, what to do if people aren't doing the right thing? As many of you business savvy people understand, there exist an economic force called "barrier to entry." This barrier is difficult enough for the "average" person, let alone someone who has the deck stacked against them by socio-economic-religious discrimination. And this issue gets downplayed because of the people like Spike Lee, John Woo, or Catherine Hardwick who become Directors in the aforementioned groups yet are a very tiny representation of the industry.

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And this issue gets downplayed because of the people like Spike Lee, John Woo, or Catherine Hardwick who become Directors in the aforementioned groups yet are a very tiny representation of the industry.

 

As far as female directors goes I honestly don't know what the solution is? All I can say is that in my experience very few women are interested in the director's chair. I just don't think it's a position many young women aspire to. Granted that may be because of the lack of role models in the industry?

 

When I was in film school women disliked any thing "techie" and as a result made few if any films because in film school you have to be a jack of all trades to get any thing done.

 

It balances out. I tried to get on a film in Salt Lake City that was produced by the mormon church. I was outright told that I wouldn't get the job because I'm not a member of the church.

 

Unfortunate and un-called for indeed. Question, does this mean you would not hire a Mormon that wanted to work with you?

 

R,

 

PS: This post does not count as one of the 16 :lol:

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As far as female directors goes I honestly don't know what the solution is? All I can say is that in my experience very few women are interested in the director's chair. I just don't think it's a position many young women aspire to. Granted that may be because of the lack of role models in the industry?

 

I wouldn't be interested in pursuing something either if I thought I'd have wasted efforts. It's just like the auto industry...for years everyone thought that women weren't interested in being mechanics but yet, when more firms opened up and accepted them (at least in limiting work like diagnostics) they flocked to it. There is no reason to think that women aren't interested in Directing, being a DP, or anything else on set. Maybe it's just an issue of not having mentorship, role models (like you pointed out), or an acceptable work environment free of harassment.

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I'm not sure why lack of Christian content is somehow a reflection of the number of crew members who are Christian, since most of the crew members are not responsible for the content of the movie.

 

Movies are an international business, and many who invest large sums of money into movies are motivated to keep religious content, pro or con, to a minimum. There's no big conspiracy involved, it's just the bottom-line thinking of a lot of corporate executives.

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I wouldn't be interested in pursuing something either if I thought I'd have wasted efforts.

 

Well becoming a feature film director is a near impossible dream for every one who tries, regardless of whether they are male, female, black, white, gay, straight, you name it.

 

I hope you are not trying to make it sound like every single man who tries to become a film director has an easy path. It is hard for every one. Of the thousands that try, only a small few will make it.

 

There are thousands of men out there who paid big money for film school only to see it result in "wasted efforts." There are those who will say that the film industry does not discriminate, it treats every one like crap :lol:

 

Also, I should point out that many of the state film tax credit programs require that producers meet hiring targets for visible minorities or the film will not qualify for the tax credits. So in one sense a voluntary quota system is being introduced into the film industry.

 

R,

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I'm not sure why lack of Christian content is somehow a reflection of the number of crew members who are Christian, since most of the crew members are not responsible for the content of the movie.

 

David, my purpose in that was more targetted at the acting portion of the spectrum. What I mean is, it is doubtful that a Christian(devout, that is) would play a role that includes numerous lines of dialog that say profane things about the God they worship. Such is not uncommon in movies nowadays. Just the same, I doubt you would find a Muslim willing to speak of Allah in vain.

 

As far as the content of movies, it surely doesn't have to be Christian or any other belief. However, I find it interesting that for 50% of the USA professing Christianity that there is so much content being delivered to market that could potentially alienate 50% of your target potential. This doesn't sound economically savvy to me.

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There are thousands of men out there who paid big money for film school only to see it result in "wasted efforts." There are those who will say that the film industry does not discriminate, it treats every one like crap :lol:

 

Well, like Minimus wrote in animal farm: "All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others." This holds true in the film business. It may treat all like crap but some have even more obstacles than you or I.

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Christian content in dramatic fiction movies is just plain boring. Christian non fiction is fascinating.

 

Boring is subjective but I tend to agree with you that many attempts at overtly Christian movies have not been executed well.

 

The market is there, however, for a nicely made Christian themed movie as evidenced by The Passion of the Christ and The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and The Wardrobe.

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David, my purpose in that was more targetted at the acting portion of the spectrum. What I mean is, it is doubtful that a Christian(devout, that is) would play a role that includes numerous lines of dialog that say profane things about the God they worship. Such is not uncommon in movies nowadays. Just the same, I doubt you would find a Muslim willing to speak of Allah in vain.

 

As far as the content of movies, it surely doesn't have to be Christian or any other belief. However, I find it interesting that for 50% of the USA professing Christianity that there is so much content being delivered to market that could potentially alienate 50% of your target potential. This doesn't sound economically savvy to me.

 

Serious actors play roles like child molesters, surely morally-reprehensible characters. They play Hitler. They even play Satan. They are ACTORS and they are acting in FICTION. The words coming out of their mouths are not the professed beliefs of the person playing the part. Do you think all the actors who had to play Romans beating-up Jesus in "The Passion" actually were endorsing that sort of behavior by being willing to act in that negative part?

 

Fiction would be pretty limited if actors could only say words that represented their moral outlook on life. There would go any bad guys in movies, unless you hired bad people to play them.

 

And if so much content is being delivered that alienates 50% of their audience, then why are movies successful at all? Are you saying that the most popular movies are therefore the ones that have the strongest pro-Christian message? Because that's where that line of thinking gets you. By that logic, big Hollywood movies must be pretty darn pro-Christian because they make billions of dollars worldwide every year, and the reason "Dark Knight" was more successful than "Terminator Salvation" was because it was more pro-Christian.

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Serious actors play roles like child molesters, surely morally-reprehensible characters. They play Hitler. They even play Satan. They are ACTORS and they are acting in FICTION. The words coming out of their mouths are not the professed beliefs of the person playing the part. Do you think all the actors who had to play Romans beating-up Jesus in "The Passion" actually were endorsing that sort of behavior by being willing to act in that negative part?

 

Fiction would be pretty limited if actors could only say words that represented their moral outlook on life. There would go any bad guys in movies, unless you hired bad people to play them.

 

And if so much content is being delivered that alienates 50% of their audience, then why are movies successful at all? Are you saying that the most popular movies are therefore the ones that have the strongest pro-Christian message? Because that's where that line of thinking gets you. By that logic, big Hollywood movies must be pretty darn pro-Christian because they make billions of dollars worldwide every year, and the reason "Dark Knight" was more successful than "Terminator Salvation" was because it was more pro-Christian.

 

There is a difference between playing a morally reprehensible character than in speaking profane things about your religious deity. Playing a villain in a role doesn't have real world consequence generally in the lives of those who are the actors. However, people who practice certain beliefs tend to feel that they can incur real world punishment for blaspheming their deity.

 

I'm not saying that Hollywood should be "pro-Christian." I'm merely pointing out that Hollywood does tend to have somewhat of an agenda at times. For example, the "pro-homosexual" movies tend to be made in larger volumes despite that idea still not being a dominating social thought. If it were a dominate thought then gay marriage bans would not be so prevelant.

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Wow, I never knew that plain reason could be so offensive.

 

I'm not trying to offend...seriously though, I always thought that good business was appealing to the largest target possible. I'm not arguing that films make money but whats better than making money? Making more money. I think that the box office revenues point to the fact that movies that appeal to the largest demographic make the most. The largest films in history tend to be those films that are more friendly to the average viewer and are more "toned down" in content.

 

I don't want to get distracted as far as this thread either. The original intent was inequity in film crews and I still stand by that point.

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Well, like Minimus wrote in animal farm: "All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others." This holds true in the film business. It may treat all like crap but some have even more obstacles than you or I.

 

Well I live thousands of miles away from Hollywood and in a foreign country. Yet I have managed to shoot two(2) feature films within a one hour drive of my house! The last one had a multiple seven figure budget, and a known US actor and a Hollywood ASC DOP. I can't get to Hollywood, so I brought it here in a sense. I am facing my obstacles square in the face and over coming them. I know thousands of other people in this business have done the same to get where they are as well.

 

 

I'm merely pointing out that Hollywood does tend to have somewhat of an agenda at times. For example, the "pro-homosexual" movies tend to be made in larger volumes despite that idea still not being a dominating social thought. If it were a dominate thought then gay marriage bans would not be so prevelant.

 

Pro-homosexual movies? Eh? Name one? FYI, no gay marriage ban here in Canada, legal in all provinces since 2006.

 

Well, Richard, we got past #16 but it's getting close to that tipping-over point...

 

Yep, now we've got some what of an "anti-gay" theme creeping in, combined with a pro-Christian theme. It's usually a bad cocktail that will give this thread a short life.

 

I also fear that Matthew's brand of Christianity may be evangelical in nature, and therefore may not include Catholics, Jehovah's Wittnesess, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, or Episcopalians.

 

That said I love all evangelical Christians....please buy a copy of The Dogfather when it's out on DVD. I promise that it's good ol' fashioned family comedy like mom used to make :lol:

 

R,

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It's interesting that when a person seeks equality that they are being "pro-whatever." Why is it anti-gay to point out that it is a social apartheid in Hollywood that has a majority viewpoint being suppressed in favor of a minority viewpoint? I think you would find that Hollywood is out of touch with reality in more than just this case.

 

Oh well, it comes down to individuals ultimately. When people get tired of it, they just wont buy and the industry will adjust. If people adapt first then I guess that's how it will roll.

 

I refuse to enumerate movies with homosexual content as it should be blatently obvious if you've watched many movies in this era. Although the "pro-homosexual" remark was a bit out of line, I tend to think that homosexual characters are portrayed as desireable while Christian characters are viewed as deceitful, racist, intolerant, hateful, and hypocritical. Can you honestly say you haven't noitced this?

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"Anti anything" movies are not okay.

 

As is the true case with people, when they cannot address an issue, they divert from the real issue. Tis better to imply that I'm "anti-gay" or "pro-Christian" than to deal with the fact that crew hiring practices are discriminatory based on religion, gender, and race. There is a "good ole boys" network going on and unless you are Richard Boddington who manages to have the fortune (which, no offense Richard, but you weren't just talented, you were also lucky), then you have to deal with the conventional channels and hope you can appeal to someones particular racial-social-economic predisposition.

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I haven't worked in film in a few years but I never saw that type of discrimination. I saw people getting hired because of experience and rate. Age may be more of an issue since younger works longer. Hollywood wants to make movies that make money and hire crews that will take less.

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