Jump to content

Never paid for gig


Matt Hepler

Recommended Posts

I was recently screwed out of $300 by Productions East Video, supposedly a small production house out of White Springs, NY. The long story. Answered craigslist ad. Spent two days filming hockey tournies in Ashton, PA. Developed bronchitis. Sent invoice but never heard anything back. Multiple emails to multiple email addresses and no replies. Phone calls are never answered.

 

I'm wondering if anyone else in the community has dealt with this company.

 

Its sucks I got screwed but I never signed a contract, never did research. I take responsibility for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its sucks I got screwed but I never signed a contract, never did research. I take responsibility for that.

 

Chin up! Most of us have been tricked into working for free when starting out, only to be used and abused and the "producers" never come up with the money. Later at least there is money, but the abuse part remains :lol: . Some experienced hands have to put up with it here and there. I have worked on multimillion shows that leave the entire crew waiting for their last paycheck for months.

 

I wouldn't beat myself too much over this, it is not your fault that these people are dishonest. Sure, it sucks. But the experience sometimes teaches us a valuable lesson or two, if there was anything you could have done differently to prevent the outcome. And it really is part of the process of finding the clients that do pay. Like I said, it happens to the best of us.

 

Make sure to contact your local film office to let them know tho, they may be able to help you get your money. You can also take them to collections, but that can get expensive. If you ever get paid, make sure to include a 10% monthly interest fee for every month that you went unpaid, but make sure your invoices to them reflect this asap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It even happens with bigger well known production companies too. I guess when The Orphanage effects house shut down, they still owed a lot of crew a healthy sum. I'm pretty sure it's been resolved now, but everyone was hearing about it when it happened.

 

Is there simply no answer when you call the prod. company? Could be they shut down and shipped out right after shooting, and you'll have to pursue it legally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a very simple rule. Do not start work until you have 50% up-front, do not hand over the master or the tapes until you have the other 50%.

 

I have always done this and never had a problem.

 

Sending an invoice for the full amount once the job is done is the kiss of death.

 

I have even insisted on 100% full payment up front when I have done business with the major Hollywood studios when they are buying a stock shot from me. They always say, "just send us your invoice."

 

And I always say, "nope, pay 100% upfront or no deal."

 

I will not waste time phoning and e-mailing to collect money, it's just not worth it. So long as you hold the product you have the leverage, once they get the product, you have zero leverage.

 

R,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a very simple rule. Do not start work until you have 50% up-front, do not hand over the master or the tapes until you have the other 50%.

 

Sending an invoice for the full amount once the job is done is the kiss of death.

 

I have even insisted on 100% full payment up front when I have done business with the major Hollywood studios when they are buying a stock shot from me. They always say, "just send us your invoice."

 

And I always say, "nope, pay 100% upfront or no deal."

 

But see, the original poster is not a production company exec or a producer, rather, he appears to be a crew member. No crew member ever gets away with asking for 50% upfront (i.e before the job), let alone 100%- at least not in the States.

 

For freelance crew members, one gets a call, shows up for a job, gets paperwork filled out (maybe) and then submits an invoice, which usually takes up to a month to be paid by the prod co.

Edited by Saul Rodgar
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But see, the original poster is not a production company exec or a producer, rather, he appears to be a crew member. No crew member ever gets away with asking for 50% upfront (i.e before the job), let alone 100%- at least not in the States.

 

For freelance crew members, one gets a call, shows up for a job, gets paperwork filled out (maybe) and then submits an invoice, which usually takes up to a month to be paid by the prod co.

 

Well in his case it was the ideal situation to ask for a 50/50 deal. He was working freelance and out of state even. He wasn't a crew member, he was a freelancer, based on the description of the events.

 

He was working in PA for a company in NY. So he asks them for 50% upfront before he does any thing, then the remainder before he ships out the raw footage.

 

If you work on set as a freelancer, yes I agree, tougher to get any money upfront.

 

Also, keep in mind that producers get screwed out of money all the time by distributors and broadcasters. Distributors are notorious for inflating their marketing costs to equal exactly what they owe the producer, therefore paying him nothing. And broadcasters can file for bankruptcy protection and get out of paying their invoices for programming.

 

These things happen all the time.

 

R,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He wasn't a crew member, he was a freelancer, based on the description of the events.

 

He was working in PA for a company in NY. So he asks them for 50% upfront before he does any thing, then the remainder before he ships out the raw footage.

 

If you work on set as a freelancer, yes I agree, tougher to get any money upfront.

 

This may be nitpicking, but how is there a difference between a freelancer and a crew member? A freelancer cameraman is usually referred to as a stringer or videographer. But freelance crew members that work independently from any production company (and a lot of times even then), or more than one, are called just that -- again, at least stateside.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This may be nitpicking, but how is there a difference between a freelancer and a crew member? A freelancer cameraman is usually referred to as a stringer or videographer. But freelance crew members that work independently from any production company (and a lot of times even then), or more than one, are called just that -- again, at least stateside.

 

But in this case he was working more as a production company, off site, that's the key. He could of asked for 50% upfront before he shot the hockey games. If they didn't send the money he could stay home.

 

If a camera guy is hired to go shoot a conference by a company, again, get 50% upfront. And don't hand over the footage until you have been paid.

 

Now if you're hired to work on set and are getting a day rate, tougher to do, yes.

 

R,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

I would agree he sounds more like a production company in the description, in such case a 50/50 might've been worth trying, but that's moot. Though releasing footage is certainly something that shouldn't have happened until one got certified funds (cash/money order/cashier's check) or their check cleared. Again, that needs to be spelled out before hand, though. Then again, problem is sometimes you don't want to risk the job for these "formalities," which is a real problem (come to think of it, I think I saw that job-posting).

Also sounds like this was more of a project rate than a day rate thing, without overtime or the like, in such a case a 50/50 would've been acceptable, I'd say. Still doesn't help matters right now.

If you want to play tough, you can get a lawyer friend, if you have one, to draft up a legal letter and mail it stating that failure to pay will be refered to civil court; a bluff of course as $300 isn't worth the civil court troubles. Send this notice as well as a new invoice certified mail to a real address, requiring signature. Might be the kick in the ass the company needs to pay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to play tough, you can get a lawyer friend, if you have one, to draft up a legal letter and mail it stating that failure to pay will be refered to civil court;

 

It will need to be a lawyer "friend" as the letter will cost $300.00 or more to draft ;)

 

Oh and FYI, the US Fair Debt Collection Act prohibits a creditor from publishing a debt, which is essentially what you are doing here. You have named the company and the amount owed.

 

Sounds unfair I know since you are the one that got cheated out of money, but that's the law. I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on TV. :D

 

R,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But in this case he was working more as a production company, off site, that's the key. He could of asked for 50% upfront before he shot the hockey games. If they didn't send the money he could stay home.

 

If a camera guy is hired to go shoot a conference by a company, again, get 50% upfront. And don't hand over the footage until you have been paid.

 

This is all speculation. The original poster needs to clarify what the actual situation was. It sounds he was working for the production company, not as a production company.

 

Most smaller jobs in the US do not come with a 50% upfront. Not as an independent cameraman or freelance crew member. Would it be nice? Hell yeah. Does it actually happen? Never heard it doing so, and that is what I've done for the last 10 years for a living. Someone asks you to go film something, you do and then hope for the best: deliver the material shot when payment is received. This has always been my experience from California to New York , from stringing for any major network or local affiliate, filming college sports games to EPKs, crewing on million dollar movies to local docs, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone asks you to go film something, you do and then hope for the best: deliver the material shot when payment is received. This has always been my experience from California to New York , from stringing for any major network or local affiliate, filming college sports games to EPKs, crewing on million dollar movies to local docs, etc.

 

Ok well that's your experience, but I've never worked that way. I always demand, and get, 50/50.

 

Maybe I'm bolder than other forum members? I dunno?

 

I won't hand off material until it's 100% paid for, I don't care how much they spit and sputter. But it's never a problem, since I explain all of this upfront before I start.

 

R,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All of the above has been great advice and I thank you. I don't expect to get paid. My post here was more of a notice to other freelance videographers. Be weary of this company.

 

It was a situation where I had no leverage. If I asked for money up front I would have been turned away. Anything I was to shoot that day would have been scheduled to one of the other freelancers running around the complex. One thing I can do next time is draft or download a work-for-hire contract and have them sign it before hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok well that's your experience, but I've never worked that way. I always demand, and get, 50/50.

 

Maybe I'm bolder than other forum members? I dunno?

 

I won't hand off material until it's 100% paid for, I don't care how much they spit and sputter. But it's never a problem, since I explain all of this upfront before I start.

 

R,

 

 

Well, I guess I had never even heard of anyone doing that and getting away with it. Everyone I know here in the States gets a call, does the job, submits an invoice and gets paid. Different was of doing business, I suppose. Good to know it works for you tho.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am with you Richard and run my business the same way.... at a minimum, I require a check at wrap. Once you hand over your work and get into your car you have zero leverage.

 

The OP nailed it and took responsibility. That is commendable. Chalk it up to experience and be thankful it is not $3,000!

 

This is very common in this business. Many are 'artists' or even 'idealists' and they reject the corporate world to pursue a career in the arts. The problem is, they need to realize that (they themselves) are now the corporation and the sooner they learn to act like real businessmen the better!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most smaller jobs in the US do not come with a 50% upfront. Not as an independent cameraman or freelance crew member. Would it be nice? Hell yeah. Does it actually happen? Never heard it doing so, and that is what I've done for the last 10 years for a living.

 

I was Gaffing a Show years ago and I overheard the producers quibbling over $ and I knew we had two more days of shooting to go. I told them if they wanted me and my crew to go out into the desert the next couple days with them, we needed checks today... by lunch. We had a great lunch and deposited the checks that evening. The rest of the crew got screwed and they really resented the fact that (we) were paid in full.... the Dp and camera crew (and everyone else) could not believe the Elecs and Grips were already paid!..... you gotta look out for yourself in this business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...