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Stephen Williams

I've been Banned from Reduser

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I could make an assumption based on what Jim has said so far, but I'd rather hear a thoughtful and precise explanation. His statement implies a necessity for film technology to improve at an exponential rate in order to survive, and logically that statement doesn't make sense to me.

 

Come on Mike, this is a very narrow reading of what he said. It's not that film needs to improve as much as that another technology--which seems to be benefiting from Moore's Law--is chasing film.

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Exactly, that's what was so audacious about Moore's Law when it was introduced in 1965 and when Andy Grove claimed it as a guiding principle for Intel.

 

...and you certainly can't apply it to the Stock Market! :o

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Come on Mike, this is a very narrow reading of what he said. It's not that film needs to improve as much as that another technology--which seems to be benefiting from Moore's Law--is chasing film.

With all due respect, Peter, I didn't direct the question at you.

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<_< Interesting. My 6:07am post after Peter's post... of which Peter quotes a small selection at 8:50... is now missing(?)

 

I believe I have been edited. Is that true?

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<_< Interesting. My 6:07am post after Peter's post... of which Peter quotes at 8:50... is now missing(?)

 

I believe I have been edited. Is that true?

 

Hi David,

 

Not by me, I don't have the possibility.

 

Stephen

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The Moore's Law reference wasn't intended to be literal... but here is an example of what I meant. The RED ONE was released with 8GB Compact Flash cards that recorded the same time (at 24fps) as a 400' film load. Today we are packaging 64GB CF cards that record the equivalent of 8- 400' loads. Film is not going to get smaller, lighter, cheaper... digital can. There are many other parts of the digital program that lean in this direction, especially sensors and data processing inside the cameras.

 

As the migration continues... it puts pressure on film stock companies to afford the development they need to do to continue to improve the film stocks.

 

I stand corrected that both Canon and Nikon haven't discontinued their stills film cameras... apparently only Canon has. I just had seen a new Nikon body in awhile... but the point still seems clear to me that not much is happening in the way of development, which usually predicts the future.

 

I agree with the hope that film stock will always be around along with processing labs. Mitchells and Arris will still work... that is for sure.

 

Jim

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I stand corrected that both Canon and Nikon haven't discontinued their stills film cameras... apparently only Canon has.

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim,

 

I believe Canon still produces the EOS 1V 35mm film camera body. At least it's still listed as being available on their website.

 

-Fran

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I believe that the only way to buy a film stills camera today is to buy one from old stock. I don't believe Canon or Nikon has current production of a film camera. That is telling.

Jim

 

Actually, Nikon still makes new film cameras:

 

Nikon Film Cameras

 

And just one quick note on the "Sunglass Salesman" thing, I still got my original pair of Oakley Blades from 1987 and they still work fine, as do my M-Frames from 1996 and 1998. Nothing wrong with making a simple, clean, very effective product that worked extremely well.

 

Best,

-Tim

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Hi Everybody,

 

I think it's great that Jim's still answering questions, can we please leave the tiny details and think more of the big picture here. Xiao Su Han had a great post that could easily be overlooked by trivial questions.

 

Thanking you all in anticipation

 

Stephen

 

Edit, can we drop the 'sunglasses salesman' bit, Jim's no longer a major shareholder in Oakley, I am more interested in going forward discussing where we are now & how we can help shape the future

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Stephen

 

Edit, can we drop the 'sunglasses salesman' bit, Jim's no longer a major shareholder in Oakley, I am more interested in going forward discussing where we are now & how we can help shape the future

 

Fine, just trying to give credit where credit is due. I'll just go back to working on my ARRI film cameras and riding my bike (WEARING MY OAKLEY BLADES!!!):

 

Paramount88.jpg

 

;)

 

Best,

-Tim

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With all due respect, REDCINE-X is great and free, but "early BETA software" can be only tried and not used for any serious project if it gets updated every second day with something else.

 

The only software which we indies can afford to grade properly on in a proper workflow is Apple Color and we yet have to see the new Color Science implemented there (which is I guess very soon) - so we for example didn't get access to the new color science in post yet because of this limitation. We just can't deal with "one light" in redcine-x beta and then take it to DPX and then to Color if the build might be crashing etc. - no good for a 90 minute movie with deadlines. The workflow in Color is great, but I can only listen to how great results people are getting playing around with REDCINE-X, but for proper finishing I can't really use the NCS yet.

 

So I don't know if it's so good to point people to BETA software without stating that, maybe that's another reason for the frustration. If the post production tools are not streamlined and up to date for everybody it's the same as not available. The same happened with the BETA firmwares and the RELEASE firmwares, people in commercial enviroments couldn't use the NCS although everybody was talking about how good it was. In the real world, you couldn't use it. Just can't go into a feature film with a BETA software that might render 50% of the RED drives out there useless unless you have them serviced.

 

I understand that this whole BETA testing is voluntary and such but RED is advertising all those great new achievements, but most of them are in BETA. So until they go into a release build it's such a big risk to use them on a proper movie and thus they are not really features yet. Not everybody has the ressources of Peter Jackson or Soderbergh to surround themselves with the best of the best that can make everything work.

 

So if I understand correctly the only software where you can actually use the new FLUT and new color science is the beta redcine-x. I think by advertising beta features a lot of anger has been brought upon RED.

 

This is a reasonable complaint... part of the problem of moving so fast. As to not being able to use these tools on a serious project, David Fincher is using REDCINE-X on "The Social Network" and Soderbergh is on "Knockout" as we speak. Scratch supports the new SDK as does Pablo in 4K. Others are coming on quick. But your point is valid. It is the dark side of RED. On the other hand, we get great feedback from our customers during the process which speeds up our learning curve.

 

Jim

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I think that once RED stabalizes a bit in terms of how it "does things," as a system that's when you'll really start to see more acceptance, Jim. This isn't to state that improvements aren't wonderful, they are. But there is something to be said about the necessity of predictability in this business. There are enough variables screwing with production as is, let alone moving targets such as camera capabilities and post work-flow. What film specifically has is the predictability of the process, and the predictability of the results from that process. Just a thought.

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In general I think that the majority prefers the fast movement and the open beta testing, it's great because we get to really see how it evolves, and you have stuff out faster than anybody else. On the other hand you're training people to expect something grand every other month. If you can keep that up, great, but I read so many impatient postings on reduser, even regarding the M-X upgrade! People got used to getting overwhelmed by improvements and releases every month, almost every week. It's almost addictive, following the news and releases, people get so fanatic about that stuff and that's what most of the haters here don't like I guess. They want to take it slow and as Geoff Boyle I think once said about a RED presentation, "the british way" instead of "the american way" ;)

 

I think that the "experience top crop people" in the community like David Mullen are also the quietest and most patient. They understand that with the Tattoo programme you're going into the right direction. But lots of people want their fix, they want pictures, specs, finally get the Scarlet, finally get the EPIC, etc etc. - heck people even plan and schedule their productions for Scarlet already! They'll have to learn again to be patient I guess.

Edited by XiaoSu Han

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<_< Interesting. My 6:07am post after Peter's post... of which Peter quotes a small selection at 8:50... is now missing(?)

 

I believe I have been edited. Is that true?

 

 

Can a Moderator/ Anyone explain what has happened? Why is my post suddenly missing... yet quoted in someone else's post? <_<

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Can a Moderator/ Anyone explain what has happened? Why is my post suddenly missing... yet quoted in someone else's post? <_<

 

 

I thought I saw a post in here where somebody poetically compared film with "someone who really loves you"

Now I can't find it. Did I imagine that, or did it also get deleted somehow?

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IIt's almost addictive, following the news and releases, people get so fanatic about that stuff and that's what most of the haters here don't like I guess.

Please try to avoid the use of inflammatory internet-speak soundbites like "haters".

People here may be skeptical or massively underwhelmed by the RED, they may find endless Fanboy posts tedious, boring or insulting, or all three.

But nobody "hates" the product itself. It's just an inanimate object.

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lost 2 of my posts today. one on here saying i had lost a post when answering about shutter angle (which i re-wrote and reposted). form my point of view, it appear the posts go through but then disappear when/if i go back to the page. Also site seems slower these days?

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OK... I feel better knowing I was not singled out. How ironic I thought, I have been banned from cinematography.com on a thread titled I have been banned from REDuser.com :lol: (well, I wasn't laughing earlier, but I can laugh now) :lol:

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lost 2 of my posts today. one on here saying i had lost a post when answering about shutter angle (which i re-wrote and reposted). form my point of view, it appear the posts go through but then disappear when/if i go back to the page. Also site seems slower these days?

 

 

I have sent Tim Tyler A PM.

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I thought I saw a post in here where somebody poetically compared film with "someone who really loves you"

Now I can't find it. Did I imagine that, or did it also get deleted somehow?

 

You're not imagining it. It did get deleted. And I'm the one who wrote it.

Wow. Incredible.

And someone responded to it as well. And I replied to their response - ALL GONE.

 

Well then, only one thing left to do...

 

Have you ever had a woman who told you she loved you, but it turns out she lied? She seemed sincere. She seemed genuine. And at first you get caught up in it all. It feels AMAZING. And youre at a vulnerable state, so you don’t notice the red flags at first.

But it turns out she didn’t mean any of it. She was cold. No warmth.

 

Compare this to a woman who tells you she loves you and really means it. It’s the best feeling in the world when it’s the real thing.

And then, when you look back, and think about the woman who lied, you realize there were subtle differences. You now realize something was a little off with her.

 

She was pretending to be something she wasn’t. She was fake.

 

It’s easy for woman to tell you she loves and not mean it. Any woman can do that. It’s rare to find that someone who loves you and means it sincerely. And maintaining that feeling is hard work, but in the end, you know it’s all worth it.

 

Because it’s real.

 

FILM tells you it loves you – and it means it.

 

That's not verbatim to my original post. I didn't save it elsewhere. Won't make that mistake again ;)

 

But that's essentially what I wrote that got deleted. Maybe it got deleted by mistake. These things happen. Since I wasnt notified of saying anything wrong, in like a private mesage, I'll assume it was an accident and simply re-post.

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lost 2 of my posts today. one on here saying i had lost a post when answering about shutter angle (which i re-wrote and reposted). form my point of view, it appear the posts go through but then disappear when/if i go back to the page. Also site seems slower these days?

I think there's a bug popping up in the Forum software. I had an absolutely non-controversial post in "Lighting" disappear.

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You're not imagining it. It did get deleted. And I'm the one who wrote it.

Wow. Incredible.

And someone responded to it as well. And I replied to their response - ALL GONE.

 

Well then, only one thing left to do...

 

Have you ever had a woman who told you she loved you, but it turns out she lied? She seemed sincere. She seemed genuine. And at first you get caught up in it all. It feels AMAZING. And youre at a vulnerable state, so you don’t notice the red flags at first.

But it turns out she didn’t mean any of it. She was cold. No warmth.

 

Compare this to a woman who tells you she loves you and really means it. It’s the best feeling in the world when it’s the real thing.

And then, when you look back, and think about the woman who lied, you realize there were subtle differences. You now realize something was a little off with her.

 

She was pretending to be something she wasn’t. She was fake.

 

It’s easy for woman to tell you she loves and not mean it. Any woman can do that. It’s rare to find that someone who loves you and means it sincerely. And maintaining that feeling is hard work, but in the end, you know it’s all worth it.

 

Because it’s real.

 

FILM tells you it loves you – and it means it.

 

That's not verbatim to my original post. I didn't save it elsewhere. Won't make that mistake again ;)

 

But that's essentially what I wrote that got deleted. Maybe it got deleted by mistake. These things happen. Since I wasnt notified of saying anything wrong, in like a private mesage, I'll assume it was an accident and simply re-post.

 

I was the one that responded. Purely in jest, I hope no offense was taken. (I don't know, because your response was removed!)

 

I guess the point is, if anyone talked like this about their red camera, they would be dismissed as fanboys. But it's okay to talk about film in such glowing terms.

 

Anywayz. Back to work.

 

R.

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I was the one that responded. Purely in jest, I hope no offense was taken. (I don't know, because your response was removed!)

 

I guess the point is, if anyone talked like this about their red camera, they would be dismissed as fanboys. But it's okay to talk about film in such glowing terms.

 

Anywayz. Back to work.

 

R.

 

If Im dismissed as a film fanboy, that's fine by me. :)

 

Also note, I dont mention a particular brand, in either film or video.

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You're not imagining it. It did get deleted. And I'm the one who wrote it.

Wow. Incredible.

And someone responded to it as well. And I replied to their response - ALL GONE.

 

Well then, only one thing left to do...

 

Have you ever had a woman who told you she loved you, but it turns out she lied? She seemed sincere. She seemed genuine. And at first you get caught up in it all. It feels AMAZING. And youre at a vulnerable state, so you don’t notice the red flags at first.

But it turns out she didn’t mean any of it. She was cold. No warmth.

 

Compare this to a woman who tells you she loves you and really means it. It’s the best feeling in the world when it’s the real thing.

And then, when you look back, and think about the woman who lied, you realize there were subtle differences. You now realize something was a little off with her.

 

She was pretending to be something she wasn’t. She was fake.

 

It’s easy for woman to tell you she loves and not mean it. Any woman can do that. It’s rare to find that someone who loves you and means it sincerely. And maintaining that feeling is hard work, but in the end, you know it’s all worth it.

 

Because it’s real.

 

FILM tells you it loves you – and it means it.

 

That's not verbatim to my original post. I didn't save it elsewhere. Won't make that mistake again ;)

 

But that's essentially what I wrote that got deleted. Maybe it got deleted by mistake. These things happen. Since I wasnt notified of saying anything wrong, in like a private mesage, I'll assume it was an accident and simply re-post.

 

That's good, because I spent quite a bit of time composing my take on this, and then thought I must have dreamed it.

Sadly this has sort of deflated it somewhat, but I wasted too much time on this to waste it now:

 

No, film is more like the girl next door that you married and had 3.4 kids with. She may not be a glamor queen, but she always keeps herself, and your kids, and their pets, and the garden, and your house neat ,and respectable, makes sure the bills all get paid on time, always has a nice dinner ready when you get home, remembers to send out all the Christmas and birthday cards, etc etc. OK , life could potentially be more exciting, but there are no nasty surprises.

 

Video is the little bottle-blond anorexic tart-princess you had a brief and exciting fling with one year after your work’s Christmas party, and you’d been having clandestine assignations with on and off for months until she insisted she needed something more permanent and so you moved into a small apartment with her. And after running up ludicrous amounts of money on your credit card to pay the establishment costs of moving into your little love nest, her apparent eagerness for all those excitingly kinky little bedrooms games rapidly turned into an attitude of “get it over with”; you started to notice all her little facial flaws when she’s not wearing 2mm of makeup which suggests she might have been less than truthful about her age, and the faint but still clearly visible scars that indicated that Dow Corning has come to her aid where Mother Nature let her down.

 

And then one day you come home and find that when she said she “didn’t smoke”, she actually meant she was trying to give it up, but what the hell it’s a free country isn’t it Mein Fürher? And when you get your love nest’s first phone bill you find she’s run up hundreds of dollars gasbagging to her trailer-trash friends/relatives on her cellphone because she was too lazy to look up the number in the book so she could use the landline. And when you suggested she might like to contribute something to settling this, she reveals that she barely has enough income to cover the minimum payments on her brace of maxxed-out credit cards.

 

Eventually you tire of coming home to a sink stacked with dirty dishes 18 inches from the dishwasher, which is still full with the load you put on two days ago and she hasn’t found the time to unpack yet, or the fact that you can’t watch your favourite TV programs anymore because she’s always watching wall-to-wall trailer-trash “reality” TV shows or twisting your ankle all the time when you fall into yet another gaping hole left when the goalposts were shifted yet again….

 

But amazingly, Film/wife accepts you back into the fold, and helped you pay off your maxxed-out credit card, and arranged to get you out of your phone contract etc etc.

 

But before too long, “little brain#2” manages to kick in with another hostile takeover, and your’re off again with another tart/film-is-dead video format, this time one you’ve found in the Internet, and hey, anything you find on the Internet has GOT to be a sure thing, cos’ it’s digital innit?

 

And so on. And so on. Until long-suffering film/wifey decides she’s suffered enough, and she divorces you, and she takes her share of the settlement, and by being careful and self-sacrificing, she manages to reasonable, if reduced lifestyle for herself, while you go on a spending spree, trying to buy a worthwhile partner with Ocean cruises, jewellery expensive hotels and of course casinos.

 

And eventually you wind up with nothing, homeless, and in rags, eating at soup kitchens, sleeping on park benches until you contract pneumonia, but just before you die, a kindly Christian hospital orderly hands you a little comic, which explains everything, and you just manage to croak/wheeze out: “Sorry about all that God,” before you expire, but now you are saved and are whisked off to heaven by a blonde angel with a perm.

Meanwhile your patient ex-spouse winds up in Hell, for ignoring the same-

 

Er sorry … my Vaudeville Routine has somehow mutated into a Chick Tract. How did that happen? Must try to stay more focused.

Nurse!! Where’s that Ritalin?

Whaddya mean: “This is Toys R Us?!”

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