alex wells Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 This is my first post so I appologize if this topic has been covered elsewhere. I would like to shoot a feature in black and white and am wondering wether it might be possible to shoot the thing with an XL2. My thought here is that if part of the "video look" of video is due to the look of the color might I not be able to save a great deal on film equiptment (Arri SR2, field recorder) and just go black and white video. I guess my question becomes - can video be shot in B and W which will rival B and W film and is there an example of such video available to see. Even if the camera itself can not shoot B and W (I don't kno), if the image can be manipulated in post to produce beautiful results, this would be of great interest to me. Thank you for any help you may provide. Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Janky Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Well, I find that taking out the color does help quite a bit. With the XL2, you can get 24p, so movement should look like film and image quality should be very good. I think using black and white video and modifying some of the colors in post (crushing the blacks, etc) would help. MiniDV loses a lot of color data when the information is put onto tape, which explains why color isn't the best hand in MiniDV's deck. For if it can be compared to film, here's my experience. I watched Clerks a while back and wasn't impressed at all with the quality of the picture. Granted, it was an indie and shot cheap. It was shot on black and white 16mm. Honestly, it looked like it could have been shot on video. So for a black and white feature, I think the XL2 would work fairly well. I would guess your results would get you close to that of black and white 16mm. Probably better than what Clerks looked like if you knew what you were doing. However, this is coming from someone who hasn't seen a 16mm or video movie projected onto a screen. I see my stuff through DVD. However, if DVD were your market for this, using the XL2 in black and white mode should, in my mind, give you some great results. Don't expect 35mm quality images, but you would be around 16mm / Super16mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasarsenault Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 It will still look different then film, even though it will be a bit closer. i have shot b/w film transfered and finished on video and video in b/w. I still like the b/w 16mm better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 B&W film has better contrast than B&W video THe blacks are richer, the whites are brighter If shot well (unlike Clerks--which regardless of cinematography I still like) 16mm B&W can be very beautiful both negative and reversal. One word of note if you're going to shoot B&W video The best way to do it is shoot it in color and then desaturate in post It's basically the same process as you do in the camera The only exception is if for some reason you change your mind You always have the color images on tape to go back to and do it in color. Also some cameras Like the DVX 100 don't allow you to desaturate the color However you can do it on the XL2. On a side note I just saw this completed music video I worked on with the XL2 It looks great on DVD and the colors are very good... Although it ain't film, it's still very good, and most people like the quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Mielke Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Lighting for B/W is not the same as lighting for colour. Take a risk, make a critical choice for your project. B/W or colour? Two different processes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Lighting in B&W uses the same principles as lighting for color. You need a key, fill, back, kicker, & set light You need to be aware of lighting ratios You need to watch for double shadows, overexposure, underexposure, etc... The only difference is lighting for color will just add the variable of color Color Temperature, and sometimes stylistic color It's a little more complicated than B&W But they have the same principles. If you can light B&W you can usually light for color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Glenn Hanns Posted February 9, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted February 9, 2005 Lighting in B&W uses the same principles as lighting for color.You need a key, fill, back, kicker, & set light You need to be aware of lighting ratios You need to watch for double shadows, overexposure, underexposure, etc... The only difference is lighting for color will just add the variable of color Color Temperature, and sometimes stylistic color It's a little more complicated than B&W But they have the same principles. If you can light B&W you can usually light for color. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Im sorry but your way off here. Black and white motion and even still photography is becoming a lost art. proper B+W photography is not a colour image with your saturation at 0, there are alot of factors that influence the "percieved" colour of objects in BW. Colour filtration is the main concern for BW. What looks like lovely red lips on a woman can look like lips that have frostbite in BW. Filters provide a way of controlling negative values at the time of exposure, these alter the relationship of different areas of colour. Try exposing a BW daylight shot with your SLR and then take another one with a red filter#29 and see the difference. If anything id say BW is much harder than colour. Cheers G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 (edited) Im sorry but your way off here.Black and white motion and even still photography is becoming a lost art. proper B+W photography is not a colour image with your saturation at 0, there are alot of factors that influence the "percieved" colour of objects in BW. Colour filtration is the main concern for BW. What looks like lovely red lips on a woman can look like lips that have frostbite in BW. Filters provide a way of controlling negative values at the time of exposure, these alter the relationship of different areas of colour. Try exposing a BW daylight shot with your SLR and then take another one with a red filter#29 and see the difference. If anything id say BW is much harder than colour. Cheers G. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well yeah you've gotta be aware of the way colors will look in a B&W picture How will a red be seen and how will that match the contrast and gray scale, etc... But I'm talking about LIGHTING here! And what I say is that the way you light B&W is basically the same as in color It's the same lighting principles! Art Direction and what filters you put on the camera.. Have to be taking into consideration of course. But it still doesn't completely affect the way you're going to light it The key will be where key would be if it were n color And the Fill will be where the fill would be if it were in color..., etc... Besides you're talking more about B&W photography--cinematography And definitely not videography---were B&W is a desaturated color image And all the filter FX you're talking about can be done in post for video. Shooting video is much different than photography. And if B&W is so difficult how come every begining photography and film course Starts their students shooting B&W instead of color? I'll give you it takes skill to make GREAT B&W images But it takes skill too to make great color images. PS I don't understand how red will translate to frostbite... Rather than making the lips look darker--perhaps Black...I dunno Edited February 10, 2005 by Rik Andino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Fuchs Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 I shot this picture with an JVC GY-DV500-Camera. I shot the hole movie coloured and made it b/w during the post. I prefer the JVC GY-DV500, because it has an 1/2-CCD which made a bit more depth of fields. But to answer your question: I would shot coloured an made it b/w during the post. Afterall you have the most possebilities. Greetings Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlie Seper Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Looks great Alex! I'm not sure I would agree about the lighting techniques described above. Those are time honored ways (3-point) of lighting for still camera work but film doesn't rely on 3-point lighting so much. Most of it is just a key and a fill. And a lot of darker scenes are sometimes done with just one soft light to truly mimic light coming through a single window and so forth. There's a great German movie, "Wings of Desire" that came out in 1988 that had a lot of lighting done with just one soft light. A lot of Citizen Cane was done like that as well. (A highly over-rated movie but it had great cinematography). Leaving a lot of stuff in the shadows adds a certain element of suspence I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member drew_town Posted May 12, 2005 Premium Member Share Posted May 12, 2005 When I light for black and white, often I'll want more contrast in the image. Often things shot in color (esp. video) and then monochromed in post will appear flat or overall gray. It's easy to adjust the contrast in post but often you'll (or maybe just me) will wish you had lit differently. I love to use just one distinctive light source and will often resort to that approach for b&w. I love black and white because it emphasizes shapes and textures. Most all the 35mm still photography I've done has been black and white. Memento is a good movie to see how they lit for b&w and color in the same movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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