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Super 8 with Sound Question

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I am interested in purchasing a super 8 camera that can make movies that i can edit with sound, and I understand these are hard to come by. This ebay item seems to have all of the components, I was just wondering if this is a good deal, and if not, if anyone could recommend where I could find a good deal. Thank you.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110534642878#ht_500wt_1154

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I HAVE A EASY ECONOMIC AND INEXPENSIVE WAY FOR YOU TO DO THIS

CALL ME AT 1800 8066808 TOLL FREE OR SEND ME AN EMAIL WITH YOUR TELE NUMBER AND ILL CALL YOU TO EXPLAIN HOW YOU CAN DO THIS WITHOUT WASTING YOUR MONEY ON EBAY GARBAGE

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I HAVE A EASY ECONOMIC AND INEXPENSIVE WAY FOR YOU TO DO THIS...

 

Why not share here so everyone can benefit from your knowledge and wisdom?

 

Unless you're pitching products and/or services, which might be helpful as well, but just say so.

 

Tim

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I'm not fully sure I understand what it is you wish to do. I looked at the gear and if it stays at $80 it's decent deal for the camera and projector. Does the audio record onto the cassette? It's my understanding that nobody makes sound striped film anymore so if that is needed to do what you want to do I don't think this will work.

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Well I'm not really sure, but I believe that the audio can record onto the cassette and sync with the video. I may be misunderstanding that, but I drew that conclusion based on this:

"No sound. Note: some were made with sound sync output jack compatible with Bell and Howell Filmosound cassette tape recorders."

taken from the page http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Canon_Auto_Zoom_814

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Why not try using a mini disc recorder? they are cheap and record digitally. Although it may be difficult to synch up the sound with the footage, but considering most cameras on fresh batteries are a little faster on 24fps, if you shoot a dialogue scene for say only 20 to 30 seconds, synching will be easier.

 

I built myself a blimp that was near 100% sound proof.

http://mishpics.yolasite.com/super8-blimp-designs.php

http://mishkin.yolasite.com/sound-recording.php

 

I think mini disc recorders are the ideal solution to small budget filming, records CD quality, light, cheap to buy, and runs on AA batteries.

 

can you ask for more?

cheers

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TIM

UNFORTUNATELY, MANY POSTINGS AND RESPONSES ON SUPER 8 SITES RESULT IN DISCUSSIONS THAT ARE A WASTE OF TIME .TAKE THIS THREAD FOR EXAMPLE, IF NEEDLES REALLY IS SERIOUS SHOULDN'T

HE MAKE A TOLL FREE CALL AND FIND A POSSIBLE SOLUTION TO HIS NEEDS? I'M NOT SAYING HE WON'T

BUT EXAMINE THE POSTINGS, SPECIFICALLY THE EBAY REFERENCE. YOU ARE STARTING AT $130,NO RETURNS,RECORDER NEEDS A MAINTENANCE CHECK (WHO CAN DO IT AND AT WHAT COST?)IF IT WORKS WHY FIX IT? WHAT ABOUT FILM COST AND PROCESSING.NO WARRANTIES ! NO GUARANTEES!.I'M NOT A GENIOUS OR DOWNING SOME OF THE MISLEADING DISCUSSIONS.I'M JUST TIRED OF THE BS THAT IS GENERATED AND LEADS NOWHERE.DIRECT VOICE CONTACT IS BEST IF YOURE SERIOUS ALTHOUGH EMAIL IS CERTAINLY A GOOD MEANS OF COMMUNICATION BUT NOT WHERE ITS DONE FOR THE SAKE OF SHOOTING THE BREEZE

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TIM

UNFORTUNATELY, MANY POSTINGS AND RESPONSES ON SUPER 8 SITES RESULT IN DISCUSSIONS THAT ARE A WASTE OF TIME .TAKE THIS THREAD FOR EXAMPLE, IF NEEDLES REALLY IS SERIOUS SHOULDN'T

HE MAKE A TOLL FREE CALL AND FIND A POSSIBLE SOLUTION TO HIS NEEDS? I'M NOT SAYING HE WON'T

BUT EXAMINE THE POSTINGS, SPECIFICALLY THE EBAY REFERENCE. YOU ARE STARTING AT $130,NO RETURNS,RECORDER NEEDS A MAINTENANCE CHECK (WHO CAN DO IT AND AT WHAT COST?)IF IT WORKS WHY FIX IT? WHAT ABOUT FILM COST AND PROCESSING.NO WARRANTIES ! NO GUARANTEES!.I'M NOT A GENIOUS OR DOWNING SOME OF THE MISLEADING DISCUSSIONS.I'M JUST TIRED OF THE BS THAT IS GENERATED AND LEADS NOWHERE.DIRECT VOICE CONTACT IS BEST IF YOURE SERIOUS ALTHOUGH EMAIL IS CERTAINLY A GOOD MEANS OF COMMUNICATION BUT NOT WHERE ITS DONE FOR THE SAKE OF SHOOTING THE BREEZE

 

For those of you who don't remember his previous postings, David Savetsky is trying to sell his presumably enormous cache of expired super 8 sound films which he has stockpiled in his freezer over the past 10 or more years.

 

For some reason no one seems to want to buy it? Last time he was offering free use of his own super 8 equipment if you paid for the shipping.

 

How about a Zoom H4N, or a minidisc as suggested. Telecine and sync the footage in post either by eye or with a slate.

Edited by jacob thomas

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For those of you who don't remember his previous postings, David Savetsky is trying to sell his presumably enormous cache of expired super 8 sound films which he has stockpiled in his freezer over the past 10 or more years.

 

For some reason no one seems to want to buy it? Last time he was offering free use of his own super 8 equipment if you paid for the shipping.

 

How about a Zoom H4N, or a minidisc as suggested. Telecine and sync the footage in post either by eye or with a slate.

hi jake!

glad to see i made an impression on you

let me correct a few of your statements:

1.my enormous cache of expired super 8 has been sold, only a small amount of the 200ft and 50 ft rolls remain for which i expect to sell

2.the film has been batch tested guaranteeing the results provided your camera operates properly. i dont think you can say that about any k40 sound film available in the world

today. Why DONT YOU TRY 1 ROLL and tell me how expired it really is.

3.my point is proven once again .the suggetions you make are more expensive and more time consuming. any way it seems you are part of the problem.

rather than offer a decent solution you make suggestions which are labor intensive telecine and post sync when that is all eliminated with sound film to begin with. you try to paint a negative picture by avoiding the goal which the original post tried to achieve i.e make a sound movie.anyway what can one expect from donn under

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3.my...the suggetions you make are more expensive and more time consuming. any way it seems you are part of the problem.

How are these suggestions part of the problem? If you have a better system, stop being deliberately evasive, and offer an opinion. If you did not intend to do so, why not send the origional posting a private message?

 

rather than offer a decent solution you make suggestions which are labor intensive telecine and post sync when that is all eliminated with sound film to begin with.

 

How will telecine be avoided with sound film?

 

you try to paint a negative picture by avoiding the goal which the original post tried to achieve i.e make a sound movie.anyway what can one expect from donn under

 

The suggestions offered were quite viable alternatives, whereas you have offered none. Also, New Zealand is NOT "donn under", AUSTRALIA is "down under", and people of both countries take great exception to ignorant gits who get that bit wrong.

 

cheers

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Hey David,

 

Please stop using all caps. I side with Gareth, in that, you are being sketchy and abrasive. Very unappealing to do business with a stranger who responds like you. It appears that you don't know what you are talking about either (sound film = no telecine?).

 

I suggest that nobody contact this man given the approach he is taking.

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The last Super-8 project I ever did was my own student film. I simply took it to a telecine, then edited the thing on 1/2" VHS. Super-8 sound isn't that good, and I think it's 8-frames before or after the image, making traditional editing a pain in the backside.

 

Just my two bits.

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To all you students of revolution:

I notice that most of you are students .It is interesting to note that i can probably safely say that over the past 35 years i have shot more super 8 film and sold the final products then all of you combined ever have or will in the future. But you all seem to know it all

but cannot address the the basic request of Needles which was to shoot and edit a film with sound.

Tim expresses interest but is concerned that i'm pitching products or services .Still his response is reasonable

Jim thinks the ebay deal is pretty good which in my opinion is completely off for the reasons i stated but admits he doesn't really understand what Needles wants to do. He concludes that since its not made anymore you cant get it

Needles now introduces a new concept that he wants to sync to video.If the film is in sync to begin with you wouldn't have the problem would you?

Gareth introduces the mini disc but admits it will be difficult to sync sound and offers his expertise on frame rates (fps) of cameras

Jacob goes on the offensive and accuses me of trying to sell stuff i cant get rid of and have hugmongus quantities of which is EXPIRED. He then suggests that sound film has not been sold in 15 years.Another brilliant statement with regard to post production of sync and telecine concludes his expertise.

Gareth still cant understand that the system i have must be top secret and cannot comprehend that it is nothing more than shooting sound carts. He cannot comprhend that jacob is the problem not his suggestions because he is complicating a straightforward simple solution.

If Needles wants to make a sound film why must he telecine be done. My goodness what did sound filmmakers do before telecine? Oh let us not forget to discuss geography that certainly will help needles aceive his goals

david s c is concerned with my using caps and considers me sketchy, abraisive, doesnt know what i'm talking about and offers his expertise sound film= no telecine?

 

THANK THE LORD THIS COUNTRY STILL ALLOWS FREE SPEECH (CAPS FOR DAVID S C )

 

Needles, if you are still there the choice is yours

ive said my piece

cheers

ds

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The Filmosound system won't allow for editing and cassette sound quality isn't too brilliant, not from a 1970s-era recorder anyway.

As George said, cutting single-system is problematic because of the 18-frame sound advance. The sound cartridges were discontinued in 1998, so any still left are going to be some years out of date, frozen or not. Stripe sound was never too good either. A few years ago I had to replace a stripe track which was only about 25 years old. I cut on computer and burned to CD because no-one stripes film anymore.

As suggested you might be better off with digital recording and not worrying about lip-sync if you want to stay on film. Of course with telecine you can go the slate route and sync shot-by-shot, so I understand.

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Like I said, you are an abrasive person. That's not very conducive to selling stuff to strangers. It says a lot about your intelligence. No thanks on the "advice".

 

To all you students of revolution:

I notice that most of you are students .It is interesting to note that i can probably safely say that over the past 35 years i have shot more super 8 film and sold the final products then all of you combined ever have or will in the future. But you all seem to know it all

but cannot address the the basic request of Needles which was to shoot and edit a film with sound.

Tim expresses interest but is concerned that i'm pitching products or services .Still his response is reasonable

Jim thinks the ebay deal is pretty good which in my opinion is completely off for the reasons i stated but admits he doesn't really understand what Needles wants to do. He concludes that since its not made anymore you cant get it

Needles now introduces a new concept that he wants to sync to video.If the film is in sync to begin with you wouldn't have the problem would you?

Gareth introduces the mini disc but admits it will be difficult to sync sound and offers his expertise on frame rates (fps) of cameras

Jacob goes on the offensive and accuses me of trying to sell stuff i cant get rid of and have hugmongus quantities of which is EXPIRED. He then suggests that sound film has not been sold in 15 years.Another brilliant statement with regard to post production of sync and telecine concludes his expertise.

Gareth still cant understand that the system i have must be top secret and cannot comprehend that it is nothing more than shooting sound carts. He cannot comprhend that jacob is the problem not his suggestions because he is complicating a straightforward simple solution.

If Needles wants to make a sound film why must he telecine be done. My goodness what did sound filmmakers do before telecine? Oh let us not forget to discuss geography that certainly will help needles aceive his goals

david s c is concerned with my using caps and considers me sketchy, abraisive, doesnt know what i'm talking about and offers his expertise sound film= no telecine?

 

THANK THE LORD THIS COUNTRY STILL ALLOWS FREE SPEECH (CAPS FOR DAVID S C )

 

Needles, if you are still there the choice is yours

ive said my piece

cheers

ds

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The Filmosound system won't allow for editing and cassette sound quality isn't too brilliant, not from a 1970s-era recorder anyway.

As George said, cutting single-system is problematic because of the 18-frame sound advance. The sound cartridges were discontinued in 1998, so any still left are going to be some years out of date, frozen or not. Stripe sound was never too good either. A few years ago I had to replace a stripe track which was only about 25 years old. I cut on computer and burned to CD because no-one stripes film anymore.

As suggested you might be better off with digital recording and not worrying about lip-sync if you want to stay on film. Of course with telecine you can go the slate route and sync shot-by-shot, so I understand.

18 frames, thanks for the correction. It's one of the first things we learned in film school back in the 80s, because everyone wanted to shoot with sound.

 

Yeah, I think it'd be a whole lot easier just to digitize the footage and use FCP. You'd still have the look of Super-8 footage, but far more control over everything you wanted to do.

 

I think I shot maybe one... possibly two cartridges worth of sound footage, but I can't remember for the life of me whatever became of it. It was raw stock, and because of the 18 frame thing not really usable in any way. Super-8 cameras that shoot sound (I had one) are noisy when it comes to recording sound. So you're almost better off spending the extra money on a guy with a Nagra or something, and lay down your track later in post. Like Mark said, use a clapper slate.

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After reading david savetsky's diatribe I thought that this discussion had to be a joke, so I looked up his previous postings and discovered that all he ever contributes to discussions is that he has film for sale, usually in a very condescending manner.

 

I have come across this type of person many times, they usually sit at the back of any discussion, only ever coming forward to deliver their words of wisdom in a way that puts everyone else in the discussion, down, and then gets angry when people do not fall prostrate at his feet, such is the weight of his knowledge.

 

I too can safely say that in the past twenty five years I have come across people who would likely know more than you, and yet be approachable, and therefore impart much of their knowledge to keen listeners. Usually those who know as much as you, are humbled in their demeanor because they realise a person never stops learning. That is why my occupation is listed as "student"

 

People come to forums for many reasons, some to ask basic questions, some to challenge current opinions, some to impart knowledge, and some to keep up with whats happening.

If you have no intention of posting anything other than advertising for your own film stocks, why not just send a private email, instead of using the opportunity to put someone's opinion down?

Unfortunately I have become the type of "poster" I loathe, taking over a thread to argue a point. But sometimes the arrogance and rudeness of people like you deserves a reply. Sorry to "Needles", but there is much info on the web concerning shooting with sound.

 

Opinions and attitudes like David's intimidate people who think they know less and would look a fool if they posted a reply contrary to yours. When often they know more because they are open to ideas contrary to their own. David, Take your 35 years of experience with a teaspoon of maturity, and grow the bloody hell up!

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To all you students of revolution:

I notice that most of you are students .It is interesting to note that i can probably safely say that over the past 35 years i have shot more super 8 film and sold the final products then all of you combined ever have or will in the future. But you all seem to know it all

but cannot address the the basic request of Needles which was to shoot and edit a film with sound.

Tim expresses interest but is concerned that i'm pitching products or services .Still his response is reasonable

Jim thinks the ebay deal is pretty good which in my opinion is completely off for the reasons i stated but admits he doesn't really understand what Needles wants to do. He concludes that since its not made anymore you cant get it

Needles now introduces a new concept that he wants to sync to video.If the film is in sync to begin with you wouldn't have the problem would you?

Gareth introduces the mini disc but admits it will be difficult to sync sound and offers his expertise on frame rates (fps) of cameras

Jacob goes on the offensive and accuses me of trying to sell stuff i cant get rid of and have hugmongus quantities of which is EXPIRED. He then suggests that sound film has not been sold in 15 years.Another brilliant statement with regard to post production of sync and telecine concludes his expertise.

Gareth still cant understand that the system i have must be top secret and cannot comprehend that it is nothing more than shooting sound carts. He cannot comprhend that jacob is the problem not his suggestions because he is complicating a straightforward simple solution.

If Needles wants to make a sound film why must he telecine be done. My goodness what did sound filmmakers do before telecine? Oh let us not forget to discuss geography that certainly will help needles aceive his goals

david s c is concerned with my using caps and considers me sketchy, abraisive, doesnt know what i'm talking about and offers his expertise sound film= no telecine?

 

THANK THE LORD THIS COUNTRY STILL ALLOWS FREE SPEECH (CAPS FOR DAVID S C )

 

Needles, if you are still there the choice is yours

ive said my piece

cheers

ds

 

What is it with this guy? What a moron

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gareth

your posting research is quite faulty

 

no one asks you to prostate yourself but since your response is poor that is probably the best one can expect.

 

the fact that you hide/humble yourself as a student does not justify your ignorance but when you resort to cursing when you cannot answer a question your ignorance is validated

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Since the activity on this post has died down i want to close my post to this thread

as follows

To Needles : since you dont have the money to make a free call nor provide a response,i suggest you dont waste your funds on super 8 sound film editing

To George and Mark:

i appologize for having put you through reading any of this since your remarks are reasonable although i may not agree completely.

To Jim: you dont need to make sound film if a supply is available

To Gareth Jacob DAVID S C Rory:A positive contribution to super 8 is beyound your reach

Considering it probably will soon disappear, i suggest you seek some gainful employment

To Tim : Dont assume someone is trying to put something over on you

Cheers,

ds

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Since the activity on this post has died down i want to close my post to this thread

as follows

To Needles : since you dont have the money to make a free call nor provide a response,i suggest you dont waste your funds on super 8 sound film editing

To George and Mark:

i appologize for having put you through reading any of this since your remarks are reasonable although i may not agree completely.

To Jim: you dont need to make sound film if a supply is available

To Gareth Jacob DAVID S C Rory:A positive contribution to super 8 is beyound your reach

Considering it probably will soon disappear, i suggest you seek some gainful employment

To Tim : Dont assume someone is trying to put something over on you

Cheers,

ds

 

I have to say, this is by far one of the most interesting conversations I have had on a forum in a long time, a pity it is over pointless stuff.

in reply to your ill researched, ill thought out remarks:

"Needles" probably will not contact you, you seem to be the type of person who offers more critism than help, despite your cache of sound film. I hope this thread has not stung him into thinking all super8 shooters are opinionated, over bearing idiots.

 

Also, who are you to judge who will and will not make a positive contribution? What is your contribution? What have you done? Will people remember your contributions? Or will they remember you as a cuastic, and angry person?

 

get a life, you git.

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I am interested in purchasing a super 8 camera that can make movies that i can edit with sound, and I understand these are hard to come by. This ebay item seems to have all of the components, I was just wondering if this is a good deal, and if not, if anyone could recommend where I could find a good deal. Thank you.

To get back to the original question...

 

Do you want to have sound on a finished film that you will project or are you ok with transferring to video then syncing the sound for DVD or web?

 

A two stage system with a Zoom H4n or similar digital audio recorder (even a cheap miniDV camera would work) is usually how it's done now. Even people shooting video with DSLR's are going back to this method which used to be the standard for filmmakers. Super 8 Sound was fun in it's day but the audio quality is pretty bad and generally prone to obnoxious camera machine noise. With a Zoom you can get mics close and even remove camera noise in post if you need to.

 

I've recorded audio with the "video" section of a small digital still camera then synced it back up manually in Final Cut. Any video/audio recorder built in the last 10 years will blow away the sound from Super 8 sound striped cartridges. Most people have some sort of camcorder laying around... the audio sections on those are surprisingly good.

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