Bell and Howell 240 Camera

[Tom Ballard]

Well, I fiigured the bell and howell magazine cameras could not be moded to super 16, but the 240 is not a magazine camera.  It is a 100' spool camera made around 1958. It can accept single and double perf.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While the 240 is a neat little camera, the thought of converting it to Super 16 is a bit ambitious. Shoot with a better camera, something like a CP-16R (not the best, but far from the worst) and you'll understand what I mean. It's sync sound and quiet as a mouse. You could never shoot sync sound with the 240. It's far too noisey and to my knowledge, no crystal motor exists for it. S16 conversion is simply not practical.

 

Enjoy the camera for what it is and you'll have fun.

 

Good luck.

[Guest Ian Marks]

"While the 240 is a neat little camera, the thought of converting it to Super 16 is a bit ambitious."

 

I disagree, especially if the modifiation is as straightforward as filing out the gate and fitting an 8mm Peleng via a C-mount adapter (hence, no need to recenter the lensmount).

 

A Super-16 modified 240, as a "B" camera, would be a great complement to a crystal-sync "A" camera. Hand-holdable, unobtrusive, and rugged... perfect for hand-held grab shots, fight scenes, and the let's not forget the occasional 64fps slo-mo shot.

 

I just picked up a 240T, which is a two-lens turret version of the 240 without the "EE" eye. Does anyone know what the effective shutter speed is at 24 fps?

[Tom Ballard]

"While the 240 is a neat little camera, the thought of converting it to Super 16 is a bit ambitious."

 

I disagree, especially if the modifiation is as straightforward as filing out the gate and fitting an 8mm Peleng via a C-mount adapter (hence, no need to recenter the lensmount).

 

A Super-16 modified 240, as a "B" camera, would be a great complement to a crystal-sync "A" camera. Hand-holdable, unobtrusive, and rugged... perfect for hand-held grab shots, fight scenes, and the let's not forget the occasional 64fps slo-mo shot.

 

I just picked up a 240T, which is a two-lens turret version of the 240 without the "EE" eye. Does anyone know what the effective shutter speed is at 24 fps?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll stick to my guns on my opinon that converting that cam to Super 16 is a bit "ambitious". Each to their own, of course.

 

The shutter speed of the 240-T at 24fps is 1/65th sec.

 

Good luck.

[Freya Black]

I'll stick to my guns on my opinon that converting that cam to Super 16 is a bit "ambitious". Each to their own, of course.

 

The shutter speed of the 240-T at 24fps is 1/65th sec.

 

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was a bit mystified by what you said about the sync sound issues with the camera. Do you mean that the cost of a S16 modification wouldn't be worth the investment with regards a mos camera? Obviously the sound isn't too related to the aspect ratio! :)

 

I expect anyone considering the modification is considering doing it themselves as the cameras are relatively cheap.

 

Or are you saying it is ambitious because you know something about the cameras structure?

 

Looking at a 240EE myself, on the one hand it seems straightforward because it is not reflex and the viewfinder would easily be modified and it appears to perhaps just be a simple gate modification, but OTOH it seems very unclear to me, looking at the thing, how on earth you would get at the gate. I suspect that on the filmo, you can undo the bolt on the centre of the turret (tho I've never tried it) but the 240 looks very mysterious!

 

Anyone got any further insight on the matter?

 

love

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

I have a 240EE which I picked up locally, so cheap it was silly, however the lens doesn't appear to be removable. Is it definitely c mount on this model? If so, how are the lenses removed?

 

My lens appears to be a 20mm Super Comat. Is that the standard lens for this camera?

 

love

 

Freya

[Robert Hughes]

One of my model 200 cameras has a similar lens; B&H Super Comat 20mm, on a bayonet mount. The lens has a pointer on the iris control with associated markings on the camera front plate: "bright sun", "hazy sun", etc. B&H was trying to make this camera more consumer user friendly.

 

You would need a different camera front mount plate to accept c mount lenses.

[Guest Christopher Heston]

One of my model 200 cameras has a similar lens; B&H Super Comat 20mm, on a bayonet mount. The lens has a pointer on the iris control with associated markings on the camera front plate: "bright sun", "hazy sun", etc. B&H was trying to make this camera more consumer user friendly.

 

You would need a different camera front mount plate to accept c mount lenses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

C-Mount lenses on the B&H 240ee?? That just sounds crazy. If it works, sweet.

 

However, my question to you is (or anybody else who owns a 240 model is what the camera's limitations are on asa speeds. Will this camera work with vert hight asa film stocks?? Might it work with Kodak's new Vision2 stock??

 

What stocks should be used in this camera?? I'm about to load a plus x, and then a kodacrome 40 into it. I hope this camera can handle at least these stocks.

 

Has anybody had positive results using the electric eye model with the batteries??

 

Anyways, I will be posting the footage in about one or two weeks. I found some batteries for my 240EE and the auto focus and auto f-stop seem to work.

 

If anybody can post some info on the quality of the footage this camera can put out with its compact lenses, please do.

 

-Chris

[Guest Ian Marks]

I have the 240T, which was the turret model of the 240EE. This won't be of much use to folks with the EE model, but the 240T definitely has C-mounts on both of its lens ports. One of the ports also has a curious thread that is concentric with the C-mount but bigger, and it's an "outie" rather than an "innie." I don't know what goes on this other mount - maybe some funky lens with a built-in meter, as the 240T lacks the electric eye feature.

 

On a related note, I notice that my B&H will run a *long* time on one winding - seems like about 65 seconds at 24fps. Pretty nice...

[Cohen Phillips]

What stocks should be used in this camera??  I'm about to load a plus x, and then a kodacrome 40 into it.  I hope this camera can handle at least these stocks.

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I've shot Tri-X 7266 with the 240EE and set the lens opening myself. (As I don't have batteries for it yet) Tri-X is 200ASA outside and 180ASA inside and I test both inside and out and the film came out AWESOME! :D So I think if you can set it manually you should be fine. As the EE only goes up to I think like 100ASA. Not sure would have to check out my camera.

[Freya Black]

Can the 240EE use c mount lenses? The answer to this is a resounding no.

 

I know I didn't have lots of replies to this, and it was obviously because my question was really stupid and you felt it was important that I exercised my brain and woked this out for myself.

 

Hence you won't all be going "Oh yeah!" when I point out the following obvious fact:

 

The EE model has an electronic eye. Hence it needs to control the apeture, thus the lens design must be proprietry to allow this control and not c-mount. In fact I expect it is impossible to change lenses at all.

 

I expect this whole part of the camera is a sealed black box and so S16 modifications will also not be possible, although I would love to hear from someone who has found their way inside.

 

love

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

C-Mount lenses on the B&H 240ee??  That just sounds crazy.  If it works, sweet.

 

However, my question to you is (or anybody else who owns a 240 model is what the camera's limitations are on asa speeds.  Will this camera work with vert hight asa film stocks??  Might it work with Kodak's new Vision2 stock??

 

Okay bad news I am afraid. The electronic eye only goes up to 50ASA, assuming the speeds are in ASA. See the side of the electronic eye itself and you will see what I mean.

 

This means that you are very limited in film stocks. There isn't a setting for 40 ASA but you might get away with Kodachrome 40 on 50 or 32 ASA. Perhaps not tho because reversal stocks are not very forgiving. You might be able to use Plus-X. However the film is not 50ASA in the new chemistry. If you develop at home, I think you might still be able to shoot 50 ASA on this however.

 

You will not be able to use vision stocks at all, because AFAIK they start at 100ASA.

 

Now heres the one bit of good news. EXR 50D! It's not a vision film stock, but in my opinion it is actually more beautiful, it is very low grain because of the slow speed and the colour and texture is wonderful. It is more like a traditional film stock than the vision stocks, and hence tarantino was using it indoors at one stage (something I don't recommend) in order to get a look more like classic cinema. It's also a negative stock which means that it is more forgiving of exposure mistakes, (such as your EE not being acurate!) EXR-50D is the way to go assuming your EE is acurate I think!

 

What stocks should be used in this camera??  I'm about to load a plus x, and then a kodacrome 40 into it.  I hope this camera can handle at least these stocks.

 

Maybe, see above.

 

You might also be able to use low contast print stocks at 10 ASA. These are cheap but you need lots of sunlight. Definitely worth playing with.

 

50 ASA was probably the fastest film people could imagine when this camera came out! :)

 

Anyways, I will be posting the footage in about one or two weeks.  I found some batteries for my 240EE and the auto focus and auto f-stop seem to work.

 

Autofocus? I think not! Are you sure?

 

Look forward to the footage! :)

 

love

 

Freya

Edited March 25, 2005 by Freya

[Freya Black]

I've shot Tri-X 7266 with the 240EE and set the lens opening myself. (As I don't have batteries for it yet) Tri-X is 200ASA outside and 180ASA inside and I test both inside and out and the film came out AWESOME! :D So I think if you can set it manually you should be fine. As the EE only goes up to I think like 100ASA. Not sure would have to check out my camera.

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Hiya HTTK,

 

Can you tell me what lens is on your camera? My assumption is that it will be the same as mine, a 20mm Super Comat but would love to know, as your fotage is the only foootage I have seen and I have been unable to find out anything about these lenses. Bell and Howell isn't famed for it's lenses but then they could be great or even rebadged lenses from another company, I just don't know!

 

love

 

Freya

[John Pytlak RIP]

Although you should normally use the slowest film you have the light for, you can always use an ND filter to reduce the exposure if you have to use a faster stock:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/students...6&lc=en#neutral

[Tom Ballard]

Okay bad news I am afraid. The electronic eye only goes up to 50ASA, assuming the speeds are in ASA. See the side of the electronic eye itself and you will see what I mean.

 

This means that you are very limited in film stocks. There isn't a setting for 40 ASA but you might get away with Kodachrome 40 on 50 or 32 ASA. Perhaps not tho because reversal stocks are not very forgiving. You might be able to use Plus-X. However the film is not 50ASA in the new chemistry. If you develop at home, I think you might still be able to shoot 50 ASA on this however.

 

You will not be able to use vision stocks at all, because AFAIK they start at 100ASA.

 

Now heres the one bit of good news. EXR 50D! It's not a vision film stock, but in my opinion it is actually more beautiful, it is very low grain because of the slow speed and the colour and texture is wonderful. It is more like a traditional film stock than the vision stocks, and hence tarantino was using it indoors at one stage (something I don't recommend) in order to get a look more like classic cinema. It's also a negative stock which means that it is more forgiving of exposure mistakes, (such as your EE not being acurate!) EXR-50D is the way to go assuming your EE is acurate I think!

Maybe, see above.

 

You might also be able to use low contast print stocks at 10 ASA. These are cheap but you need lots of sunlight. Definitely worth playing with.

 

50 ASA was probably the fastest film people could imagine when this camera came out! :)

Autofocus? I think not! Are you sure?

 

Look forward to the footage! :)

 

love

 

Freya

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Freya,

 

HTTK's Tri-X film came out nicely and the speed of that filmstock exceeds the limitations of the cam's electric eye. But, as he posted, he metered and set the aperture manually. I can see no reason one couldn't shoot any filmstock they wanted in that cam, including fast Vision 2, providing it's done in manual mode.

 

Many cameras have a film speed limitation suited for their 'automatic' modes, be it exposure or something else. I have an old gray Scoopic that only registers 320ASA, but that's for the internal light meter. Although that model Scoopic doesn't have very good glass, I've shot 500T with good results, but I didn't use the internal meter or the film would've been over exposed. I also have a Canon 1014 XL-S Super 8 that only registers 400ASA. Again, this is for factoring in the internal meter. I've shot 500 speed film with that cam as well, using an incident meter.

 

I have the 240-T with the Super Comat f/1.9 20mm lens. According to the manual, this was one of two lenses that came with the camera new. The 240-T accepts C mount lenses.

 

If it stops raining, I'm going to shoot some Vision 2 200T today and Vision 2 500T tonight.

 

Good luck.

 

Tom

[Freya Black]

Freya,

 

HTTK's Tri-X film came out nicely and the speed of that filmstock exceeds the limitations of the cam's electric eye. But, as he posted, he metered and set the aperture manually.  I can see no reason one couldn't shoot any filmstock they wanted in that cam, including fast Vision 2, providing it's done in manual mode.

 

er yeah, we were talking exclusively about the electronic eye, obviously you can use an external light meter and stick whatever stuff you want in there, in which case you could use vision 2 stock or even an 800ASA film. The electronic eye only goes up to 50ASA, so you are a lot more restricted if you wish to use it.

 

I certainly never meant to suggest you couldn't use whatever you liked if not using the EE.

 

Many cameras have a film speed limitation suited for their 'automatic' modes, be it exposure or something else. I have an old gray Scoopic that only registers 320ASA, but that's for the internal light meter. Although that model Scoopic doesn't have very good glass, I've shot 500T with good results, but I didn't use the internal meter or the film would've been over exposed. I also have a Canon 1014 XL-S Super 8 that only registers 400ASA. Again, this is for factoring in the internal meter. I've shot 500 speed film with that cam as well, using an incident meter.

 

Actually shooting neg film, you could probably have got away with the canon at 400 ASA because it's not that far off. (Isn't that about 1/2 a stop?) It's nice to be able to get it bang on if you can tho. :)

 

There are of course some S8 cameras that have no manual settings! (eeek!), so perhaps this is why you bring this up! Thankfully the 240EE is not like those.

 

I have the 240-T with the Super Comat f/1.9 20mm lens. According to the manual, this was one of two lenses that came with the camera new. The 240-T accepts C mount lenses.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh that's interesting! There must be a version of the lens that is c mount too!

How are you finding the lens yourself?

 

Do you have any other lenses, and how do they compare to the super comat?

 

love

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Although you should normally use the slowest film you have the light for, you can always use an ND filter to reduce the exposure if you have to use a faster stock:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/students...6&lc=en#neutral

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Now that's a neat idea! You could shoot Vision2 100 with just a filter to drop the speed one stop, while still using the built in metering at 50 ASA! You would still need enough light to shoot at 50 ASA of course. :)

 

I wonder if you could get away with Vision2 100 at 50asa anyway, even without the filter, I know I was nervous about the Kodachrome 40 and the settings available, but neg film is supposed to be more forgiving and I guess it's only one stop? Don't some people like to overexpose neg film half a stop or something anyway??

 

It might work okay.

 

I happen to love exr 50D of course! :)

 

Thanks for that suggestion John!

 

love

 

Freya

[John Pytlak RIP]

Now that's a neat idea! You could shoot Vision2 100 with just a filter to drop the speed one stop, while still using the built in metering at 50 ASA! You would still need enough light to shoot at 50 ASA of course. :)

 

I wonder if you could get away with Vision2 100 at 50asa anyway, even without the filter, I know I was nervous about the Kodachrome 40 and the settings available, but neg film is supposed to be more forgiving and I guess it's only one stop? Don't some people like to overexpose neg film half a stop or something anyway??

 

It might work okay.

 

I happen to love exr 50D of course! :)

 

Thanks for that suggestion John!

 

love

 

Freya

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Kodak VISION2 100T Color Negative Film 7212 can easily tolerate one stop of overexposure. If anything, it will give you more shadow detail and even finer grain.

[Robert Hughes]

The B&H Super Comat lens was a rebadged Taylor, Taylor & Hobson lens (according to the TT&H site). TT&H also manufactured the Cooke lens line until Cooke spun off as an independent company.

 

The Super Comat lenses I have all take perfectly good clear pictures, equivalent to the Angenieux and Schneider primes of the era. They may not be up there with new lenses but are fine for indie and amateur filmmaking.

[Guest The Cardboard Company]

Hi all --

 

I just wanted to let you know that after following this thread for a week, I bought a 240ee. It arrived yesterday and I love it.

 

I think forums like this that discuss low cost 16mm cameras are invaluable. It allowed me to make an informed purchase decision (one I never would never have thought of before). Thanks.

 

One question: How are you all correcting for the parallax error from the objective on the viewfinder?

 

Thanks,

 

Aaron

[Guest Christopher Heston]

Hi all --

 

I just wanted to let you know that after following this thread for a week, I bought a 240ee. It arrived yesterday and I love it.

 

I think forums like this that discuss low cost 16mm cameras are invaluable. It allowed me to make an informed purchase decision (one I never would never have thought of before). Thanks.

 

One question: How are you all correcting for the parallax error from the objective on the viewfinder?

 

Thanks,

 

Aaron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

parallax error??

 

-Chris

[Guest Ian Marks]

The viewfinder on my 240T is a zoom type from 20-100mm, and it's probably the weakest part of the camera's design. Since I intend to use the camera with a 10mm or wider lens, I'm thinking of gluing an accessory shoe onto the camera and using an accessory finder from a still camera. Parallax would definitely be a problem with longer lenses and/or closer shooting distances.

[ZHAOYANG CHANG]

HTTK,

 

Nice job!

 

What filmstock and lens did you use? I have only the 25mm lens on the B&H 240 (not the electric eye) and have been anxious to try it out. At 24fps without film the motor seems to run about 52 seconds on one wind. How much time did you get before having to rewind? Do you know the max ASA this cam will register?

 

Once again, nice job with framing and imagery and the little slapstick film was entertaining as well.

 

Thanks. Tom Ballard

I bought a Bell howell 240 non electric model, it runs 62 second at 24 fps, and 129 Second at 16 fps both with and without film. it gets 10 seconds more than the instruction manual(80 seconds at 16 fps)

Edited January 29, 2015 by ZHAOYANG CHANG

[Nathan Maguire]

Hello,

New member here, bringing up an old thread. So I am your average newbie, wanting to mess around with 16mm short films. Of course I did my research and narrowed it down to the Bolex H16, K3, and Canon Scoopic. But through this forum I learned about the B&H 240 and I was intrigued by the camera itself and the low cost. I grabbed one off an auction site for $17. If it indeed, runs and exposes properly that is a big saving over buying a Bolex or K3. Heck, two batteries for the 240's artificial eye light meter, cost more than the camera. So thanks all for the tip!

 

Film stocks haven't been brought up in over a decade. So, what does everyone think about Kodaks current Vision3 lineup compatability with this camera? I am asuming the 50D would be a good match for color? Any idea on B&W stocks?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Nathan Maguire

[Simon Wyss]

There is no compatibility of a film stock with a camera, look-wise. You can expose any 16-mm. raw film with any camera for 16-mm. film.

 

Negatives and positives are the professional way, reversal films were the amateur’s choice. There is one true reversal black and white stock on the market, Fomapan R 100. It’s got a colourless acetate base and a pure silver undercoat as anti-halo protection. It needs to be reverse processed, else one can’t see the image due to the black undercoat.

 

You have a number of negative black and white films: Orwo UN 54, Orwo N 74, Eastman Double-X 7222. Kodak Tri-X 7266 can be developed to negative and inversed but it is to know that it has a grey base which makes projection overcast. You can shoot on sound recording films, experiment with positive and high-contrast films.

 

For colour images study the lenses. A color neg-pos production can cost you already some good money. In case you are serious about filmmaking it might be worth to look out for good lenses. Here’s a forum where 16-mm. format ciné lenses are discussed. The Bell & Howell 240 has the C(iné) mount, which is a 1"-32 thread.

[Nathan Maguire]

Thank you very much for the info, much food for thought.

 

The reason I mentioned Vision3 50D was because the B&H 240 will only work in auto exposure mode up to 50 ASA. Anything faster and I'll have to break out the light meter or go sunny 16 and hope for the best.