kodak 7279 and bright color

stijnbarbe · January 6, 2004

hello everyone, happy newyear!

this is my very first post on the cinematography-forum and I'm afraid I immediately have to ask you something.

I'm a beginning Belgian DP and I'm working on 2 videoclips. The director and I decided to create a very vivid look. the color has to jump off the screen as it were.

I'm propably going to shoot on Kodak vision 500T (7279 in 16mm) because we're doing some 150fps and because it's one of the more colorful kodak-stocks. I haven't checked outside of the vision-series though.

Now my question is how do I enhance the colors during shooting/processing....

of course we will start by putting a lot of color in the sets and actor's clothes.

thanks,

Stijn

Mitch Gross · January 6, 2004

Pull-process and then pump the colors in the transfer.

John Pytlak RIP · January 6, 2004

Go for a slightly "richer" exposure (maybe up to one stop over), and definitely avoid underexposure. Lighting and costume/set design are probaby the most important factors. Consider using fluorescent dyes, paints, and fabrics if you want glowing colors.

Tony Brown · January 7, 2004

Red enhancer may help (some will kill me for that I know but I've had some success with them)

Also keep your lighting fairly bold & directional I'd start with 3/4 front light.

Dont forget the most important colour on the screen - black. Without a black reference I find even bright colour is diminished.

F Bulgarelli · January 8, 2004

A good reference is "Molin Rouge" which (I believe) was shot with the 35mm equivalent 5279. That shows you how the combination of stock, costumes, production design, make-up, etc, works together.

Plus some digital manipulation.

Great film!

stijnbarbe · January 8, 2004

thanks a lot everyone. for mr pytlak: I've already used 7279 once and then I overexposed 1 stop as you said. I totally agree using this technique and especially like the way it ads a lot of 'life in the skintones.

we will be transferring to digibeta for editing and broadcasting, so there 'll be telecine and grading to pump it up in post.

stijn

stijnbarbe · January 13, 2004

I searched around some more and found a few good tips in the forum archives.

I will shoot on 7279 and overexpose by 2/3 stop or by1 stop. wich is best? my guess is the 2/3 stop overexposure since I plan to use a polarisation-filter to enhance color even more.

this overexposure will result in richer color and less detailed blacks right?

we also plan to shoot some highspeed shots (75fps and 150fps) should I be aware of any changes in the look of the stock at higher framerates?

thanx

Bill Totolo · January 13, 2004

I don't know, what do you guys think about

exposing 3/4 - 1 stops over for telecine

transfer? I find things get a little noisy

that overexposed. Unless of course you want

to break out the noise reduction etc. which

increases the expense.

I think you can attain the results you want with

a slightly less aggressive approach and a

talented telecine op.

Things get especially critical on 16mm or when

using older lenses on 35. IMHO, of course : )

David Mullen ASC · January 14, 2004

Depends on the telecine used. I probably wouldn't overexpose by one stop for material to go straight to video though. In fact, if it's for video transfer only, I usually rate the stocks normally. For print, I tend to rate them 1/3 or 2/3 stops over and print down. I don't do 1 stop over because at that point, I might as well just use the next slower speed stock.

stijnbarbe · January 14, 2004

I don't know what telecine is used by my lab (colour by Dejonghe in Belgium)

but if I understand correctly, it's safer to rate normal and work on the color during telecine yeah? I'll email the lab to get their opinion since they know what their machines can and can't do.

thanks

John Pytlak RIP · January 22, 2004

A really "heavy" (very overexposed) color negative can require more gain on some telecines, introducing electronic noise into the highlights of the image. Work with your colorist to choose the best combination of exposure, processing, and electronic image manipulation to suit the "look" you want. In most cases, slight overexposure (up to 1 stop) can be tolerated without noticeable noise penalty.

Michael Nash · February 16, 2004

..Obviously coming in late on this discussion.

7279 overexposed one stop will likely give you telecine noise, especially in the reds. Been there, done that. For telecine I wouldn't go more than 2/3 over and pump up the rest in color correction. For print the results are different, where you might get grayish or dirty-looking whites if you have to print down too much.

Push processing does a lot to snap up the color and contrast, but obviously also raises the grain in an already mildly grainy stock. Probably not the direction you want to go based on your description.

Of course this post comes a month late, so, what did you do and how did it come out, Stijn?

I'm curious Mitch, why did you suggest pull processing? To get tighter grain so there's less noise and grain when pushing the chroma in telecine? I never considered that, but it makes sense...

Mitch Gross · February 16, 2004

I'm curious Mitch, why did you suggest pull processing? To get tighter grain so there's less noise and grain when pushing the chroma in telecine? I never considered that, but it makes sense...

Try it out. A colorist suggested it to me once and it worked better than I thought. Rich.

stijnbarbe · February 26, 2004

Well the music video has been on air for a week now and the puyblic responds well and the record company sharks were happy aswell

I didn't push or pull at all. I rated the stock normal and had the art dir. and costume people give me bright sets and actors.

then we did the video transfer on an older flying-spot telecine in stead of a fancy scanner. the lab where I go (Dejonghe in Kortrijk, Belgium) is a small family corp and I had the chance to have my telecine done by Mr Dejonghe himself.

The man(he breathes film) proposed to use the old machine because of the color. It seems weird, but he assured me that my gritty, bright look was easier to obtain on his outdated machine.

We've started preprod on the second clip and as soon as it's finished I'm going to make a showreel. I'll let you know where and when you can see it.

thanx to everyone for helping me out on this topic!

stijn