Today I am no longer a student.But am I an expert?

[Malinko]

My theory is the more I know, the safer I am outhere regarding film. I am twenty years old. I go to a community college and major in physics. Im a c student, not much of an intelectual but I try. I have learned alot about film over the years. I think I have alot of knowlege. I read all I can. I think I know plenty about film and optics and light. I know all the terms. Terms like "Finite Conjugate" "Gaussian Theory" "Doublet" "Crown Glass". "The PH scale regarding film" "Annuls" "Pont spread fuction" "Nodal Points" "Mireds" "Opacity, that it is the reciprocal of transmission. Chemical characteristics. Modulation Transfer Function, etc, etc.

 

 

I obviously know plenty more terms and their deffinitions, I just wish not to post them due to space and your attention span but you get the idea.

 

How much more can I learn? I want you to prove me wrong because that means I will learn somthing guys. I think I have reached a plateau. Please prove me wrong, Im starving!

 

 

Thanks Guys!

[Guest Ultra Definition]

Is this supposed to be a joke? I don't get it. You want to know what other terms and definitions you should learn?

 

If this is not a joke and you want to be a cinematographer, how about changing your major, forgetting further studying about physical theory, and rather getting some practice not with a book but with a camera.

[Kevin Zanit]

I can just see myself calling out to the 1st AC to make sure he tested the Finite Conjugate.

 

These terms have little practical use in the world of cinematography. Learn not terms, but real world concepts.

 

 

Kevin Zanit

[David Mullen ASC]

You're twenty years old and you think you've reached a plateau in learning about filmmaking???

 

I'm forty-one and have shot 27 features and I think there's still so much to learn!

 

Start making more films and it will become very apparent what knowledge you are lacking.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I think I know plenty about film and optics and light. I know all the terms. Terms like "Finite Conjugate" "Gaussian Theory" "Doublet" "Crown Glass". "The PH scale regarding film" "Annuls" "Pont spread fuction" "Nodal Points" "Mireds" "Opacity, that it is the reciprocal of transmission. Chemical characteristics. Modulation Transfer Function, etc, etc.

Out of all these terms, the only ones I use on occasion are "MTF" (very rarely), "nodal point" (for some expensive tripods), and "opacity". The rest I've never applied in practice.

 

You have to know how to mount a camera on a nodal head, and that combines practice with theory. The art of applying the theory to practice correctly is what you spend all those years learning. Books in this business are only the very beginning, it's mostly all in the field work.

 

- G.

[Guest Chainsaw]

No tech-talk from me today...

 

Quite honestly if you really had the quantity of knowledge that you claim you would not be farming for any outside references into the arena's or terminology's that you lack. As you gain knowledge and the temperance to properly apply it, it becomes quite obvious where your faults are. The truly wise are that way because they know that for however much they do know there is far more that they do not. Once you believe that you know everything you stop learning anything. I care not what profession or path a person takes on this planet, you are always a student. You asked how much more can you learn, well sir, you won't live long enough to learn it all. When Kurosawa retired he publicly stated that there were complete worlds of filmmaking that were alien to him and he had just reached the point where he felt he was a professional at his craft.

 

Learning technical terms and buzzwords are fine but they are useless if utilized or learned in absentia of their proper context. I would much rather have an AC at my side who could thread a Panastar in the dark over one who could prattle on about MTF's and the inverse square law. While words can make men it is the actions that define them. As George wisely put it: The art of applying the theory to practice correctly is what you spend all those years learning. If you really want to know where you stand, gather what you know and hit the streets. See how it all holds up to the trials of a rigorous film production. Of course if that prospect worries you and prohibits that action then you've failed before you've even begun. You can't succeed if you are afraid to fail. Be conscious of every mistake that you make (you WILL make them) and learn from them.

 

If you want my admittedly biased advice take some time and learn a little humility. The next shoot you find go to the Gaffer and volunteer for cable duty. You may not learn about chromatic aberration or flare lenses or sparticles or what a Chapman Stick is but you may learn a little about yourself.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

or what a Chapman Stick is

Well, in that case any King Crimson fan has a major plus when they walk on a set :lol:

[Wendell_Greene]

"The Pretentious Cinematographer"

 

Foreword by Robert Rodriguez

 

Chapter 1 "Finite Conjugate" "

Chapter 2 Gaussian Theory"

Chapter 3 "Doublet"

Chapter 4 "Crown Glass".

Chapter 5 "The PH scale regarding film"

Chapter 6 "Annuls"

Chapter 7 "Pont spread fuction" ...

Chapter 8 "Optics and Eyepatches"

Chapter 9 " MTF and Beret Maintenance

Chapter 10 " Avoiding the Plateau Effect"

Chapter 11 " Filters ( A guide to cigarette holders)

 

Chapter 12 "Go Handheld" Cinematographer Wolf's Ten Tips to injecting Life in

the Narrative (see audio commentary on Living in Oblivion DVD)

 

Chapter 13 "Opacity and the Obtuse Lab Technician"

Chapter 14 "Monogrammed Meter Cases"

Chapter 15 "For your Consideration" - self guide to the award nomination process

 

Chapter 16 Becoming a member of the PSC

 

Index

[Rachel Oliver]

This is the funniest thread I've ever read!

[Ozgur Baltaoglu]

How much more can I learn? I want you to prove me wrong because that means I will learn somthing guys. I think I have reached a plateau. Please prove me wrong, Im starving!

Try to make just one 3 min. film and find out...you'll be surprised at the amount of things you need to learn.

[Kevin Zanit]

I love Living in Oblivion!

 

Wendell, I hear that book is already sold in USC's bookstore ;)

 

 

Kevin Zanit

[Malinko]

lol

 

 

I couldnt reply to this earlier because I was in class. If we post messages or use email, play music or any type of media over the computer we get punished.

 

Listen, Im smart enough to know that I dont know much of anything. Cinematography is a sprawling subject, its huge! Im just trying to learn. I went on the google message boards regarding cinematography. Those people are mean! Im happy to be here where the people are nice and the staff is helpful. After the whole google thing I said "Im gonna be as technical as I can". We're all artists we can all get better. Despite my major, I like to think of myself as an artist. An artist just plodding away at his garden. Lets all do better.

 

No, I have never actually used a motion picture camera before. But I know how to take still pictures. I have an old Pentax, things a treat. Thats film.

 

Back in high school I never took the "film class" because all they would do is shoot on video. They would make videos then put them on the morning school news after the pledge. Instead I took the still photography class because we would shoot black and white film in manual SLR cameras. We would then enlarge, develope and print our pictures. I think this taught me more about film than the video class would. Video? yuck!

 

Mr. Mullen. What is it that you learn everyday? Whats the most recent thing you have learned? I have been reading your posts for the last couple months over there at google. Its kind of weird corresponding with you. Kind of like meeting Mark Wahlberg, or somthing. What are you still learning? I gotta hear this one!

 

 

Did you know the F-number of the eye is f2.8-f-16.

[Michael Nash]

Did you know the F-number of the eye is f2.8-f-16.

No, nor do I care! :P

 

Academic knowledge without practical experience is pretty much worthless. Practical experience without academic understanding is also worthless. You've got to have both.

 

Maybe BECAUSE you're only 20 years old and in school is why you don't quite grasp what it's like to amass years of experience and knowlege and still feel like a neophyte. You'll understand, someday!

 

It's hard to explain the feeling. When you truly have a passion for something you yearn to get better, if only so that you can do more. Maybe you're confusing "competence" with "mastery." Even once you reach mastery, you strive for excellence, innovation and beyond. Without that drive, you won't get past mere competence.

 

Video class would have taught you more about filmMAKING than still photography would. It's good that you got the technical education in film-based photography, but much of what a cinematographer does is design, coordinate, and manage the events needed to tell a story on film. The photographic image is only one component of a motion picture, and the DP has to be an expert at SO much more than just that...

[David Mullen ASC]

Today I learned:

 

That it's nicer to walk from Penn Station to Times Square than stand in line behind a subway entrance with a malfunctioning card reader.

 

I learned that two hours is about the maximum time a director can give you to talk about shot lists before he is consumed in phone calls. This has proven true for about three days in a row.

 

I talked to Greg Irwin about his experience with non-Panavision anamorphic lenses and about his most recent anamorphic project. I asked Mitch about his tests of various non-anamorphic lenses. JDC anamorphics apparently are small and light (comparatively) but prone to flare being older Cooke glass.

 

I got a tour of Camera Service Center and learned that they don't own an anamorphic eyepiece for a Moviecam Compact and they got rid of their Arri BL's and Arri-III's and that Darius Khondji is in town shooting a film "The Interceptor" with Hawk and JDC anamorphics. I found out that the 3-perf Arricams run slightly louder than the 4-perf Arricams. Discovered that the Arricam-LT is fairly quiet for a lightweight design. Learned that the anamorphic switchable viewfinder for the Arricam is slightly heavier than the non-anamorphic viewfinder.

 

Learned something about filing for tax deductions for business expenses from Mitch, whose dad is an accountant. Found out he is three weeks away from being a new dad himself. Congrats!

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I think this taught me more about film than the video class would. Video? yuck!

I am both a still photographer and a cinematographer. I can tell you that still photography as an artform has many common points with film BUT it's a different art form. For example, there's no such thing as a camera move or focus pull in still photography, nor can you apply certain still photography tricks to cinematography. There is also a difference in how things are framed many times, because of the factor of motion (and needless to say, you can't do a vertical shot in cinematography)

 

So unless you're talking about learning how film emulsion reacts to light, you can't really say that a still photo class taught you more about movies than a video class would.

 

Video can be thought of in several applications - live television, documentary, or narrative filmmaking. Each of these applications is more closely related to film-filmmaking than still photography, save for the way you light.

 

So I wouldn't write off your video class so fast - there is a lot to be learned there, and be happy that you're shooting on a cheap medium like tape, which is a gentler way to learn your mistakes. Yes, I really dislike videotape, but you should learn how to work with it because face it - unless you're lucky a lot of the work you'll be doing to get somewhere will be video. Don't expect to have a cable network hire you to shoot a documentary with a CP-16 - that's just not going to happen most of the time.

 

- G.

[Brad Grimmett]

Today I learned:

 

That it's nicer to walk from Penn Station to Times Square than stand in line behind a subway entrance with a malfunctioning card reader.

So I'm guessing you're shooting in New York soon David? Sounds fun. Don't freeze your butt off up there! Looking forward to any reports once production begins.

[David Mullen ASC]

I'll be shooting in Philadelphia actually.

 

The weather is really pleasant right now!

[stijnbarbe]

Maybe BECAUSE you're only 20 years old and in school is why you don't quite grasp what it's like to amass years of experience and knowlege and still feel like a neophyte. You'll understand, someday!

 

I'm 21 years old, but I DO realise that the day I get out of filmschool, is the day I really start learning.

 

I'm passionate about film and try to make, watch and breathe as much as I can. I don't understand how someone can think he has come at the end of learning. In my humble opinion you just never stop learning.

 

Next time a fool like Malinko tries to beget some kind of "wow hellyeah I'm a bigshot filmmaker-status" in this lovely community shouldn't we just ignore his post?

 

maybe I'm a bit harsh, but 2 years ago I had the chance to meet Jack Cardiff, one of the greatest cinematographers of all times and he assured me he has never stopped learning.

 

Stijn

[Guy Meachin]

Ever heard the expression "ask a teenager, while he knows everything?" seeing as your only 2 years off I think it still applies! ;)

[Sebastien]

Penn Stations to Time Square? I'll keep that in mind if i ever get in NY! cool.

[Dorian Quell]

wow, im three years younger than this guy. and i feel really good now thanks to him. thanks malinko, for making us still very young chaps feel a lil more dandy about themselves.

 

hehe

[Malinko]

What are you talking about?

[Dorian Quell]

the.....Gaussian Theory...yep

[Dieter Vansteenwegen]

Today I learned:

 

That it's nicer to walk from Penn Station to Times Square than stand in line behind a subway entrance with a malfunctioning card reader.

 

I learned that two hours is about the maximum time a director can give you to talk about shot lists before he is consumed in phone calls. This has proven true for about three days in a row.

 

I talked to Greg Irwin about his experience with non-Panavision anamorphic lenses and about his most recent anamorphic project. I asked Mitch about his tests of various non-anamorphic lenses. JDC anamorphics apparently are small and light (comparatively) but prone to flare being older Cooke glass.

 

I got a tour of Camera Service Center and learned that they don't own an anamorphic eyepiece for a Moviecam Compact and they got rid of their Arri BL's and Arri-III's and that Darius Khondji is in town shooting a film "The Interceptor" with Hawk and JDC anamorphics. I found out that the 3-perf Arricams run slightly louder than the 4-perf Arricams. Discovered that the Arricam-LT is fairly quiet for a lightweight design. Learned that the anamorphic switchable viewfinder for the Arricam is slightly heavier than the non-anamorphic viewfinder.

 

Learned something about filing for tax deductions for business expenses from Mitch, whose dad is an accountant.  Found out he is three weeks away from being a new dad himself.  Congrats!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hey, that's actually a nice list...

I was looking for something completely different since I will do a first AC job for the very first time in a couple of weeks (nothing really serious in fact), so I'm quite nervous, and it's nice to accidently find this thread about learning through experience :)...

Anyway, back to the theory now...

[Annie Wengenroth]

I think the best part about this thread is that on the main page, the subject line is too long so it gets truncated and looks like this:

 

"Today I am no longer a stud..."

 

That confused me. :P

 

Now that I know what the thread is really about, I can say that I myself have learned a ridiculous amount in just a years' time, but I know that there will be many times in my career (and in my life!) where I will screw up, because I'm only 23 and I have not been doing this forever. And you know what? I welcome those times with open arms.

 

I could recite facts until I was blue in the face, but the day I really learned something was the first day of the shoot that I've been working on (1st AC). I spaced out and managed to put the dovetail plate on backwards, much to my embarrassment. I swallowed my pride and within a week I was building the camera way faster than before and hauling it around like it weighed nothing. It has been an unforgettable experience.

 

Do what other people tell you and listen to them more than you've ever listened to anyone. Even grunt work has its eventual merits. If you make a mistake, own up to it and don't let your ego get in the way.