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Kirk Anderson

Good God- 16mm Camera value plummets in the last year...

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You made me question myself. Just looked at it again, it's actually a Model "B" from the 20's. Probably not worth $600 but maybe $60! :rolleyes:

 

post-7911-0-41573300-1293642369.jpg

 

Well, $60 is about what it should bring, but ebay is more likely to bring $20 to $30. Yours is the early version of the f/3.5 Model B, and somewhat scarcer than the later one, but not so much that anyone would pay more. $12 is still a good buy, though.

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Well, I think it's pretty obvious that HDSLRs have brought some cameras down in price. But, while I own a Canon T2i, I really want to pickup a 16mm camera, so I have ebay searches going on pretty much every camera mentioned in this thread, and having said that, I'm not sure they have dropped that much, at least not today. :)

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Here is a 16mm film with a French 7.5mm gun used in a unusual way:

-Rob-

 

Rob,

I quite enjoyed your little film. I liked the skip frame / stretch frame effect. Was this done optically or after transfer?

 

Cheers

Gregg

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I haven't heard very many people talk about it, but jesus, 16mm camera prices has plummeted in that last year.

 

I've collected over 10 16mm cameras over the last 6 years and just sold my last one. From K3's to bolex's, scoopics and arris.

 

I just sold my full Arri S package to a guy in TX who's never going to use it.

It's going to be used at a prop for his shoots.

 

3 years ago Arri S's were going on ebay for $1500 or more. I tried to Sell it in LA and SF for over 6 months. Started a 1250, downed to 1000, then down to 800. At $800 it still took 3 weeks. Lenses, mags, cases, 1000ft of film, light meter and a mole richardson light! $800 good god.

 

I saw a super 16mm CP16R on Craigslist listed for $300 to $200 then down to $100. Still hasn't sold, but the guy has bundled it with another CP16 and is trying to get $300 for BOTH OF THEM.

 

In may I saw a Eclair NPR full package ready to shoot sit on CL for weeks at $600.

 

I sold all my 16mm stuff so I could focus on Super8 where processing is less and DSLR HD like everyone else.

 

I just can't believe it! Do you think prices will ever bounce back? Or are we going to see Arri super16 SR's get sold for less than 1K?!?!

 

 

It's hard to tell what will happen to our cameras. People are still shooting. It;s the service side of the business that has changed the art form.

 

I am selling my CP for less than what I paid, but I already got my worth out of my cameras to the point I could give them away and still come out on top. I think the lack of interest now boils down to two things;

1. Many film schools no longer use 16mm or super 8mm film, and those cameras are available.

2. The cameras are not in demand anymore, not to mention the older cameras are not easily serviced.

 

The whole indie film fad has died down a bit and many folks have left in debt. And there are many DV and HD cameras out there that are now obsolete. But your film camera is probably worth more than an old SVHS or Hi-8 camera, and there is a market for it. Film has become a specialty item, whether its a prop, antique display, or a working tool. And let's not talk about the price of silver right now, and it doesn't seem to be stopping. I hate to wonder how Kodak and Fuji will deal with $100/oz silver.

Edited by ck filmworks

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And let's not talk about the price of silver right now, and it doesn't seem to be stopping. I hate to wonder how Kodak and Fuji will deal with $100/oz silver.

 

It isn't just silver. Go to the gas station or supermarket. It's not that everything's going up, it's the dollar that's going down.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

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I think a lot of this may be the fact that if you're going to shoot 16mm, Super 16 is the way to go. Old Arri's like the S can't be converted and a lot of older models are worth very little because of this restriction. 16 x 9 is here to stay, so if you want longevity, buy a camera that can be modified.

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The seller of this outfit is restricting sales to "collection only", and this naturally restricts the the price because those who might be interested in purchasing the camera are immediately put off. For this reason I am not so sure that the price sought on this occasion is indicative of value. But notwithstanding this however, if, for example, somebody living in Europe, was interested they would have to factor into the total cost import duty and VAT. Most European countries are now imposing VAT between 19% to 25% and those "taxes" are payable on all costs, not just the purchase price. Calculating this out, therefore, the cost of purchasing this particular outfit would be approaching double the cost at which the outfit is initially being advertised.

 

As for the technology, at least one can say that there is a camera with which one can shoot the latest excellent film stocks and get excellent results. One cannot say this for all the "old" video systems which have been introduced and then become obsolete within a relatively short period. Those cameras are truly worth nothing and were never able to deliver deliver good imagery in the first place.

 

Even today, manufacturers are still taking customers for a ride by constantly changing basic technology and telling those who have purchased the earlier generation to "throw away what they paid good money for" and by abandoning servicing and support after a relatively short time.

 

One can still get many film cameras serviced after many years.

 

Add to all of these factors the substantial and very costly difficulties of retaining imagery, and the "cost benefit analysis" of using video imagery as opposed to film, and one gets a result which is rather different from that which videotographers would have us believe.

 

We should therefore be proclaiming the quality and longevity of film, and reflecting on the fact that in real terms overall costs have been held at highly competitive levels. In my experience, videographers (or should it be "digitographers"?) always seem to run away with the idea that their costs are low, but they never undertake a true comparative cost benefit analysis which relects the capital costs of their "disposable" equipment and the costs of manipulating and preserving their imagery.

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I think a lot of this may be the fact that if you're going to shoot 16mm, Super 16 is the way to go. Old Arri's like the S can't be converted and a lot of older models are worth very little because of this restriction. 16 x 9 is here to stay, so if you want longevity, buy a camera that can be modified.

 

Nooooooo!!! You'll unleash the Tim monster!!! Those Arri 16s' can still look really good even cropped to 16x9 as evidenced by Tim's site... arri16s.com.

 

That being said, I think plenty of DPs are holding on to their Super 16 XTRs and Arri SRs going, "How can they be selling for this cheap?" And it's just the market right now... I'm excited to pick up cameras I never thought I would be able to afford. I get digital and understand why the market has gone there, but it doesn't change why I love film.

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Nooooooo!!! You'll unleash the Tim monster!!! Those Arri 16s' can still look really good even cropped to 16x9 as evidenced by Tim's site... arri16s.com.

 

That being said, I think plenty of DPs are holding on to their Super 16 XTRs and Arri SRs going, "How can they be selling for this cheap?" And it's just the market right now... I'm excited to pick up cameras I never thought I would be able to afford. I get digital and understand why the market has gone there, but it doesn't change why I love film.

 

 

Ha! Well said. Today's film stocks are certainly amazing and retain their quality when cropped or blown up. Also, I would welcome any Arriflex into my home- it's just that cameras that can be converted to S16 seem to enjoy a bit of an advantage in the market place since shows like Walking Dead and even some features are shot in this format. All the labs are equipped to process it, blow ups to 35mm are no problem, etc..

 

I'm using a converted Bolex to do time lapse and I really love it-

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Guest Christopher Sheneman

As a young filmmaker I'm -like- jumping on a trampoline super-stoked about all this "crisis" talk about the value of professional 16mm cameras dropping. But know this, for the first time a lot of us are getting to OWN these cameras we only saw in magazines, on websites, etc.. I now own (3) crystal-sync silent beauties and feel inspired to save my money and work extra hard to produce real lasting quality- it's like that Starship song "Nothings gonna stop us now" playing in my head. I don't see how any of this can be negative to the film industry now or in the future.

And if this is the beginning of the end of 16mm know that the last filmmakers who shoot this format care just as deeply about the process (if not more) than the previous shooters- there will be some great 16mm films yet!

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Nooooooo!!! You'll unleash the Tim monster!!! Those Arri 16s' can still look really good even cropped to 16x9 as evidenced by Tim's site... arri16s.com.

 

That being said, I think plenty of DPs are holding on to their Super 16 XTRs and Arri SRs going, "How can they be selling for this cheap?" And it's just the market right now... I'm excited to pick up cameras I never thought I would be able to afford. I get digital and understand why the market has gone there, but it doesn't change why I love film.

 

OH NO, THE DREADED TIM MONSTER!!!!!

 

Got a call from Axel Broda yesterday. Needed a Super 16 Arriflex 16SR gate I had in my shop. Seems he's got another camera to convert. I was surprised, as 16mm filmmaking has really seemed to have dried up. But he said he is seeing a resurgence somewhat. I guess folks are getting tired or bored with the look of digital all the time.

 

I am certainly a fan of the Arriflex 16S, it's a great little camera. But I am no fool, if you have access to a Super 16 sync sound camera package, and an Arriflex 16S package, and you want to shoot a sync sound project, don't pick the Arriflex 16S. 16mm film and processing costs the same whether you shoot Regular 16 or Super 16, so if you have the Super 16 camera and lenses, you'll get more image real estate with Super 16. But if all you have access to is an Arriflex 16S camera, and a good set of lenses, then by all means you can still do great 16:9 work with it, it just takes a bit more care and planning.

 

Best,

-Tim

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But he said he is seeing a resurgence somewhat.

My guess would be all the people that just bought standard 16mm SR's for less than a Canon 5D would like theirs converted to Super 16.

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