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Guest Christian Film Project

Finding a girly DP!

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Guest Frank Gossimier

Hey Phil,

 

You must be about the 20th Londoner I've "met" that does not drive.

 

Of course I find the public transportation in London to be excellent and there's no place to park your car there any way, so why bother driving?

 

It seems odd though when you live in a country where most families have three cars, and kids can't wait to get their license when they turn 16.

 

So I'll be shooting in London the last week end in May, can you recommend a spot to get a good shot of the Parliament Buildings with the Thames at sunset? I want them bathed in orange light.

 

There's that one bridge you go over that gives you a good view of the Parliament and the river, would the sunset behind the camera if I shot from there?

 

Ta

Frank

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I've worked with a few Women Cinematographers

And they tend to differ from one to another...

And this is because no two people are the same :huh: (yes this is true, serious)

 

You can't stereotype someone (although it's fun)

because of their race, religion, gender, nationality, or profession

 

Women in filmmaking--especially in the technical sector--have a hard time

Most men in G&E don't respect women cinematographers

Most often than...they have to be tough in order to be respected.

So to many guys women DPs seem bitchy or butch or whatever but...

If they weren't they'd be brushed aside.

 

Now I'm one who believes that the most qualified person should get the job

But on the otherhand one has to RECOGNIZE that women have

And are being discrimanated in the film industry.

So how can we rectify this?

Is one guy losing a job to woman going to rectify

The thousand of years of male oppresion? Probably not.

But will it emasculate men--NO!

 

A guy losing a job to a woman is the least that can be done

To rectify our forefathers mistake.

Blame your fathers and grandparents (that why we shove 'em in homes)

For you losing a job to women or minorities or other Affirmative Action folks.

It's their fault we now have to fix the problems they began.

 

And it's not just women who have a problem with the film industry

Personally as a minority I find the film idustry to be very discrimatory

It's not in a Southern Jim Crow way ("Know your place boy!")

But quite often than not I've worked with folks who had very little

If no contact with minorities and feel ackward & threaten working with them

I've heard inappropriate comments and then word like "lighten up"

But it's just not that easy to lighten up after years of discrimination...

 

When you're the only person of "color" on a set

Among 20-25 people it's hard not to feel marginalized

I'm sure women feel the same way when they're in charge of a bunch of men

Who I'm sure would more than love to take her job from her.

 

It's hard for someone who's been discrimanated to explain her/his situation

To someone who's never felt discrimination ever before.

White males should understand that the world isn't as nice to other people

And should be a little more understanding when someone else gets the job...

Christ just lighten up :)

 

Maybe we as human beings still haven't learn to get along

And still find it difficult to work together

I'll place the blame on our forefathers--

And the Catholic Church (they're responsible for most of our problems)

And of course the (white) man (they're always responsible for something :rolleyes: )

 

 

 

Jesus this is a pretty long---sorry :)

Edited by Rik Andino

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I work with some great female AC's that not only don't take poop from anybody but also know how to give a good talking to to anyone that might need it.

They all work with military precision and know their stuff as well or better than many male first AC's. Frankly I avoid hiring people with "frat boy" tendencies because I can't relate to that crap anyway.

They all seem to respond very spontaneously should a driver or grip make a remark.

Remember that in nature it's the females that do the hunting.

And Annie, I personally don't think of "skateboarding, snowboarding, playing guitar, starting an electronic music project, working with power tools, cutting my hair short, climbing trees, wearing baggy pants, getting tattoos, dying my hair blue" as boyish activities, but just activities (PERIOD).

Cinematography like all arts is genderless. You have to be a bit crazy to enter this business in the first place.

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Guest Frank Gossimier

Oh this is just classic when men say this...

 

"A guy losing a job to a woman is the least that can be done

To rectify our forefathers mistake."

 

Hey Rik Andino, the next time you get a job on a film set I want you to say....

 

"I can't take the job, please give it to a woman."

 

You're not likely to say that are you? You need the work and the money.

 

So unless you personally are prepared to give up work for the sake of a woman, well, your words don't mean much.

 

As for white males like me being the source of all of the world's woes...as the saying goes, cry me a river. You honestly think any white males feel responsible for the plight of women and minorities?

 

We will continue to dominate the film industry and every other industry that really matters for as long as we feel like it. No amount of affirmitive action or employment equity (as it's called in Canada) will ever change that.

 

How many of the 100 Senators in the US Senate are non white males? And it's 2005! What has affirmitive action really accomplished at the highest levels of US society? Nothing.

 

As for the white males here that think other wise, first, give up your job to a woman or a minority. Then you can criticize me for saying what I'm saying.

 

Frank

Edited by Frank Gossimier

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Hi,

 

> can you recommend a spot to get a good shot of the Parliament Buildings with the

> Thames at sunset?

 

South bank opposite the main buildings. ENG guys do standups there all the time. Also directly over the river is one of the only places it's feasible to get permission to fly a helicopter, which may interest you. There are also shots from one of the downstream bridges which will put you backlit with sunset.

 

But hang on

 

> sunset

 

What is this "sun?"

 

Phil

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Guest fstop
Does anyone recall that way back in 1981, when Steven Spielberg was making E.T., he hired Carol Littleton to cut it rather than use his regular collaborator Michael Kahn?  At the time, he said he did so because he wanted the film to have "a woman's touch."  Given the chance to, would Mike Kahn, who's cut everything he's done since, have not been able to deliver?  Couldn't he "channel" the right feel?  It's an interesting question.

 

 

Actually, the real reason was because at the time Michael Kahn had his hands completely full with Poltergeist, fighting with Tobe Hooper, grudgingly "Spielbergising" the picture at the producers insistence. It must have been an awful experience. Anyway, they were cutting as they were shooting on ET so that made Kahn completely off limits. It's all sheduling.

 

FYI Verna Fields cut Jaws, so Spielly had the experience with a female editor previously.

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Guest Frank Gossimier

""South bank opposite the main buildings. ENG guys do standups there all the time. Also directly over the river is one of the only places it's feasible to get permission to fly a helicopter, which may interest you. There are also shots from one of the downstream bridges which will put you backlit with sunset.

But hang on

sunset

What is this "sun?""

Phil

 

Hey Phil,

 

Thanks for that. I hate to be a pain but do you have actual street intersections available? So I can get in a cab and say, take me to......I just don't want to be driving around & around.

 

As for the sun...ahhhh come on it's not that bad, in the summer you can get a few sunny days a week in London. It was sunny all week last time I was there in July, maybe that was just good luck?

 

Frank

 

PS: I'm going to hire you as first AC on this shoot and pay you 500 pounds a day :D

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Hi,

 

Street intersections? What d'you think this is, New York?

 

Just ask the cabbie to take you down on the south bank somewhere you can see Parliament, or get off the underground somewhere around Waterloo. You'll be walking up to the banks of the river anyway, there's not much direct road access.

 

Anyway, why not shoot something more accurately reflecting London life than that awful Parliament cliche - a dog turd, a pile of needles under a park bench, or a puddle full of litter.

 

Phil

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Rik Andino:

"It's hard for someone who's been discrimanated to explain her/his situation

To someone who's never felt discrimination ever before.

White males should understand that the world isn't as nice to other people

And should be a little more understanding when someone else gets the job...

Christ just lighten up"

 

Frank G:

Hey Rik Andino, the next time you get a job on a film set I want you to say....

"I can't take the job, please give it to a woman."

"As for white males like me being the source of all of the world's woes...as the saying goes, cry me a river. You honestly think any white males feel responsible for the plight of women and minorities?"

We will continue to dominate the film industry and every other industry that really matters for as long as we feel like it. No amount of affirmitive action or employment equity (as it's called in Canada) will ever change that.

How many of the 100 Senators in the US Senate are non white males? And it's 2005! What has affirmitive action really accomplished at the highest levels of US society? Nothing.

As for the white males here that think other wise, first, give up your job to a woman or a minority. Then you can criticize me for saying what I'm saying.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Rik, good for you.

 

Frank, go to bed.

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Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith
But hang on

 

> sunset

 

What is this "sun?"

:lol:

Phil your not very fond of England are you

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Guest Frank Gossimier

"Anyway, why not shoot something more accurately reflecting London life than that awful Parliament cliche - a dog turd, a pile of needles under a park bench, or a puddle full of litter."

 

Well actually Phil for this spot I need all the cliches, and they need to look good!

 

Big Ben, and that famous view of the bridge in the foreground and BB in the back. I'll even wait for a double decker to come over the bridge so it's in the shot as well :-)

 

I guess I don't see as much of the crap in London that you do. NY, LA, and Toronto, are all just as bad. Homeless and garbage every where.

 

It's the curse of big cities and a prime reason why I don't live in one.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Frank

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Guest Frank Gossimier

"Rik, good for you. Frank, go to bed. "

 

Hey student Jonathan Spear I can't wait for you to graduate and get out into the real world. Then you'll get a good dose of reality. At this point you can be excused for your naivety.

 

Let's see how enthusiastic you are for Rik's point of view when you get smacked over the head with affirmitive action.

 

Frank

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Frank- I'm not too sure how the U.S human rights work, but you should check out the Canadian Human Rights website http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/legislation_polici...minatory%20acts.

 

If you scroll down you will see that it states

-"Discriminatory notices

 

A poster that encourages discrimination is illegal.

 

Hate messages

 

Internet and pre-recorded telephone hate messages are forbidden."

 

You should be careful with what you post. You don't know who you are negatively affecting.

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Actually, the real reason was because at the time Michael Kahn had his hands completely full with Poltergeist, fighting with Tobe Hooper, grudgingly "Spielbergising" the picture at the producers insistence. It must have been an awful experience. Anyway, they were cutting as they were shooting on ET so that made Kahn completely off limits. It's all sheduling.

 

FYI Verna Fields cut Jaws, so Spielly had the experience with a female editor previously.

Michael Kahn took over from Ric Fields (Verna's son) as editor of Poltergeist well into production. Poltergeist was to be Ric Fields' break as editor, but as you point out, Spielberg became quickly dissatisfied with how things were proceeding and one result was firing the editor.

 

Some of it's scheduling, but not all of it. I beg to differ. Also, don't lump Verna Fields in with Carol Littleton. Both female, both editors, both talented, but did Littleton hire a publicist to promote the notion that she'd "saved E.T."? Verna Fields did exactly that on "Jaws," a move that arguably cost Spielberg a best director nomination on that film.

 

Saul.

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Guest Frank Gossimier

I'm sitting here laughing at Kyle Geerkens post, hey you should write comedy full time!

 

First off do you honestly think I give a rats butt for any thing the federal government of Canada says? The federal gov't of Canada is the biggest bunch of snakes, thieves, liars, and scum, on the planet.

 

If discrimination is so illegal in Canada as you say, how do you explain the NDP gov't of Bob Rae running ads in newspapers for gov't jobs that said quite clearly, "White Males Need Not Apply."

 

Can you explain that Kyle? How is that legal?

 

Listen my "Ry High" friend, go back to your discussions of the "socialist dream" with the rest of your left wing looney tune Ryerson buddies.

 

Frank

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The federal gov't of Canada is the biggest bunch of snakes, thieves, liars, and scum, on the planet.

 

Frank

 

Actually the US federal government is the biggest bunch of yadda yadda yadda

You don't need me to get you details do you...

 

(I hope I don't get arrested for that comment :o )

 

Anyways Frank I'm not saying die to f**king let women rule the world goddamnit...

But I'm just saying men shouldn't have a cow when a women beats em to the job

 

Afterall we've done alot worse to them then that over history...

If you don't believe me ask your great grandmother.

 

Women should have as equal a fair chance as men to get the job...

Although they usually don't but they should be allowed a fair chance to compete

If you believe that then it's cool.

 

The best person deserves the job...but usually the best person never gets the job.

 

So when you lose a job to a women or minority...congratulate them

And stop being a player hater man B) just learn to lose one now and then.

 

Would you have been the type of guy who on the Titanic

would be cursing the women & children first rule?

 

Anyways don't player hate yo :)

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Guest Frank Gossimier

RE: "Would you have been the type of guy who on the Titanic

would be cursing the women & children first rule?"

 

What they let women and children go first? That's an outrage!! :D

 

Actually you raise an EXCELLENT point, women want every thing equal and then they want special treatment at the same time. Like, getting to the life boats first on the Titanic.

 

I'm only in favour of 100% complete equality of the sexes, no favorites under any circumstances. So on the Titanic for instance the crew would have stood there and said, "Ok a woman, and now a man, a woman, and now a man, a woman.....". 50/50 split, half men on the life boats half women, that's what I call fair.

 

In divorce cases the men will get the kids half the time, the women get the kids half the time.

 

In war, half the drafties are men, the other half are women. 50/50, that's fair.

 

In exchange for this women will make up 50% of all jobs every where no matter what, that's fair.

 

Now of course all women will balk at my plan. What women want is equality only when it suits them <_<

 

Frank

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Actually Frank, I am all for equality for everybody. I often resent being treated differently just because I'm a woman. I have had men take grip equipment OUT OF MY HANDS and carry it for me as if I wasn't already holding the damn stuff and handling it just fine! I do think there are some women out there who want the sort of treatment you're talking about, but it's not all of us.

 

I'm totally digging this thread even if I don't agree with everything being posted; I'm still glad that we're talking about it. As far as women in the film industry acting *more* "manly" than the boys, I'm not sure why that happens but yeah, sometimes it does. Maybe we feel we have to overcompensate? I don't know. I have hit a point where when I am referred to as "one of the guys" or something similar, I now consider it a compliment. Oddly enough, film was one of those things that helped me to reach this point. Even reading that people recognize discrimination in the industry when it happens, is a breath of fresh air and a huge relief to me.

 

To be honest, I am of the mindset that if any minority wants discrimination to truly end, they have to recognize the idea of being treated equally not separately. We will never truly progress if we continue to separate ourselves into groups and labels. Unfortunately, that's human nature...

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Hi,

 

All I know is that there's both a "women in film" group and a "black filmmakers" organisation in the world right now, and as such I am now the victim of discrimination. Joking aside I wasn't involved in the historical persecutions of either of these groups and this kind of preposterous and forced "positive discrimination" can't be anything but harmful in the long term.

 

Phil

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Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith
Hi,

 

> Phil your not very fond of England are you

 

"You're"

 

Phil

Whatever Phil.

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Guest Frank Gossimier

"All I know is that there's both a "women in film" group and a "black filmmakers" organisation in the world right now, and as such I am now the victim of discrimination. Joking aside I wasn't involved in the historical persecutions of either of these groups and this kind of preposterous and forced "positive discrimination" can't be anything but harmful in the long term."

Phil

 

 

Right on brother, right on!

 

Frank

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"Let them hate, so long as they fear."

 

-Lucius Accius

 

--------------------------------------------

 

"Now of course all women will balk at my plan. What women want is equality only when it suits them" - Frank Gossimier

 

"First off do you honestly think I give a rats butt for any thing the federal government of Canada says? The federal gov't of Canada is the biggest bunch of snakes, thieves, liars, and scum, on the planet." - Frank Gossimier

 

"Women now dominate the casting directors role, but that's it.

Film making is still a man's game." - Frank Gossimier

 

"What's wrong with having the DP position being mostly male? Come on, how many female auto mechanics have you seen in your life? No one complains about this...how many women seriously have any interest in being an auto mechanic? Not many are interested in being DPs either." - Frank Gossimier

 

"Oh this is just classic when men say this...

A guy losing a job to a woman is the least that can be done

To rectify our forefathers mistake.

Hey Rik Andino, the next time you get a job on a film set I want you to say....

I can't take the job, please give it to a woman." - Frank Gossimier

 

"As for white males like me being the source of all of the world's woes...as the saying goes, cry me a river. You honestly think any white males feel responsible for the plight of women and minorities?" - Frank Gossimier

 

"As for the white males here that think other wise, first, give up your job to a woman or a minority. Then you can criticize me for saying what I'm saying." -Frank Gossimier

 

"Hey student Jonathan Spear I can't wait for you to graduate and get out into the real world. Then you'll get a good dose of reality. At this point you can be excused for your naivety.

Let's see how enthusiastic you are for Rik's point of view when you get smacked over the head with affirmitive action."

 

etc..

 

etc....

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