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Finding a girly DP!

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Guest Frank Gossimier

I said I was in favour of a "best qualified person for the job" system.

 

But I will openly and aggressively fight all affirmative action programs, and the vast majority of my white male film buddies are quite determined to do the same.

 

My views are not the views of a lone white male, my views are shared by millions of white males in the USA and Canada.

 

The courts in the US having been cutting affirmative action programs to ribbons, they'll be but a memory in a few years.

 

I'm proud to say I've done my part in Canada by voting against every party that has ever proposed this type of reverse discrimination legislation.

 

Frank.

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Hi,

 

> But I will openly and aggressively fight all affirmative action programs, and the vast majority of my

> white male film buddies are quite determined to do the same.

 

I've known a couple of black female film people who felt exactly the same way - they don't want to work under the constant suspicion that they've been leapfrogged into the position by some blatantly unfair legislation.

 

Phil

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I was going to jump in sooner and say that I don't even weigh 100 pounds but I can still hold a 20+ pound camera with no problem, in cold temperatures nonetheless. I can also carry Arri lighting kits down stairs by myself, do 12 pull-ups, and lift an astonishing amount of weight for someone my size. I can ALSO fit in extremely small spaces where a larger person might not be able to.

 

It's not a matter of how heavy something is, it's knowing how to hold it so that you distribute the weight evenly. Believe me, I had to learn this so I could keep my job.

 

Oh, and just so you know I'm not some angry, bra-burning feminist, I still laughed at this:

 

I choose chick DP's cuz they are way hot and I can bang them off set. Who cares what the damn film looks like?

 

Couldn't help it...sorry guys... :P

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Guest Kai.w
TSM, Kai.w....

 

Sadly you two are unable to formulate an argument of any substance and must rely on obscure quotes.  Speaks volumes to your lack of any real intelligence or the ability to create your own logical counter point.

 

What? You think re-quoting me causes me any distress or embarrassment?  Think again.

 

All of my points are 100% valid.

 

I challenge you to counter them.

Frank

 

Pff.... I don't feel at all like discussing this with you, cause, quite frankly, most of what you said, was rather insulting or immensely stupid. My time is too precious for this and I guess you won't get the point. I just wanted to make clear that there are some "white male buddies" who do not share your view.

If you think that proves your point of "lacking intelligence".... man, I can live with that...

 

Maybe you should look at the numbers of women / minorities in higher jobs in countries which do have antidiscrimination laws as opposed to those which have not. Maybe you should look at the structure of political parties which do have quotas opposed to those which have not (if you only know two parties I can't help you). Maybe you should think why it is still the case that still statisticly women get paid less in the same job than a male. Maybe you should do some research on the special reasons why in the poorest countries in africa the economy would totally collapse if it was'nt for the women who raise the kids and work at the same time. Maybe you should consider the reasons why though I don't feel guilty for what people did in my country some 60 years ago, I'm still aware of having some sort of responsibility...

Seriously, your whining about being discriminated as a white male sounds like a real pubertal reflex...

 

 

I'm getting bored of this...

 

-k

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Guest Frank Gossimier

Kai. W.

 

"Maybe you should look at the numbers of women / minorities in higher jobs in countries which do have antidiscrimination laws as opposed to those which have not. Maybe you should look at the structure of political parties which do have quotas opposed to those which have not"

 

You're making me laugh out loud!

 

As Phil Rhodes points out what even makes you think many women and minorities want this type of legislation even though in theory it will benefit them?

 

Does the black female surgeon want all of her patients to think the only reason she's a surgeon is because there is a quota to fill for black female surgeons? Maybe she actually worked hard and got there on her own will and intelligence. These assinine quota systems you're in favour of will diminish the accomplishments of all women and minorities.

 

Why not set aside 50% of all the seats in the US Senate for women? "Oh good morning Senator Hillary Clinton, nice to see you, are you enjoying holding one of the 50 senate seats set aside for women? Of course there's no other way you could have been elected, seeing as how you are a women and can't compete with men unless you have some special status."

 

Frank

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I said I was in favour of a "best qualified person for the job" system.

 

Sorry to tell you, that does not necessarily describe the Hollywood system.

 

Your agnst is aimed in the wrong direction, a fear of something that doesn't really exist.

 

Here are scenarios that in todays reality will cost you a job to someone you may be more qualified than.

 

 

- Someone else's Father went to Harvard with the producer, and yours didn't.

 

- Someone else's Uncle is a predominant member of the union, and yours isn't.

 

- Someone else has friends and connections, that you don't.

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I've known a couple of black female film people who felt exactly the same way - they don't want to work under the constant suspicion that they've been leapfrogged into the position by some blatantly unfair legislation.

Phil

 

Actually when I think about it there is no affirmative action in filmmaking. Well I can't speak for other countries but in America it doesn't really exist in film.

 

There is no minimum requirement for female or minority Directors, DP's, etc. So all those many men that normally do that job have little to fear, the small opportunity that anyone else ever has comes from being hired for their skill and not a forced quota.

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Guest Sean McVeigh
I've done a couple of features with an all-female camera crew actually and I never noticed a difference in how the work got done.

 

Except that when one of them has to use the bathroom, you suddenly find yourself entirely crewless? ;)

 

I kid! I kid!

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Guest Frank Gossimier

I agree with all of this....

 

- Someone else's Father went to Harvard with the producer, and yours didn't.

- Someone else's Uncle is a predominant member of the union, and yours isn't.

- Someone else has friends and connections, that you don't.

 

You could add a lot more to the list. So the last thing we need is some idiotic affirmitive action program in the film biz.

 

Unfortunately, in the TV industry affirmitive action is quite rampant. Every time you apply for a job at a US TV station you must complete a racial background survey. It's the law as laid out by the FCC, the stations have no choice.

 

So basically if you're a white male applying for work at a TV station in the USA you'd better hope for one of two things, 1) No women or minorities want the job 2) You're so good there's no way they can't hire you.

 

I should also point out that in the USA if a white male TV station owner sells his station to a woman or minority, he does not have to pay capital gains tax on the sale. More bias against white males. It's just endless.

 

Frank

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Guest Laura Beth Love

Thanks for the plug, McKellar! Sorry it took so long to get in a reply.

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So basically if you're a white male applying for work at a TV station in the USA you'd better hope for one of two things, 1) No women or minorities want the job 2) You're so good there's no way they can't hire you.

 

Frank

 

And yet amazingly there are still plenty of white male cameramen

In the television industry---my oh my they certainly are being discriminated. ;)

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Amazingly Mr. Case your challenge as been taken up on.
I was afraid it would be <_<

But that's not to say we can't all laugh at some of the stereotype jokes, if sparingly used.

 

So long as the attitudes portrayed by some people on this list (and elsewhere) persist, women have an uphill struggle to get the same opportunities as men. Be honest, there is no level playing field.

 

Frank, you are being very thorough in pointing out bias against white males. Can you not think of any instances anywhere of bias in favour of white males?

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I can understand being against affirmative action, I would think most people wish it were something that didn't exist.

 

To be fair an honest you should be equally vehemently against any type of favoritism. Nepotism and Ivy League Legacy are the very concepts that brought affirmative action about.

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Guest Frank Gossimier

"Frank, you are being very thorough in pointing out bias against white males. Can you not think of any instances anywhere of bias in favour of white males?"

 

Well obviously Dominic there is not one piece of government legislation in the USA or Canada that seeks to advance white males. While there are dozens of laws on the books that seek to "advance" women and minorities. For instance the University Of Michigan has been under fire for quite some time now for its very blatant quota polices that disadvantage white males.

 

There are thousands of grants available to women and minority university students. There is not one grant or scholarship any where in the USA or Canada that specifically states that the recipient needs to be a white male.

 

So in terms of formal legislation that creates a "bias in favour of white males" there are NONE.

 

Informally and un-officially I suppose there is the "old boys network" as it is called. This is a system I have been forced to support as it is my only defense against the myriad of laws designed to disadvantage white males.

 

Quite frankly "we" need to stick together more now than ever. The harder affirmative action is rammed down our throats, the harder we will push back. This pushing back will come in the form of ensuring that our white male brothers continue to advance. So in this sense white males may have a slight advantage for a few more years.

 

Those that oppose us can take heart, our birth rate is very low, so in 20 years Hollywood can look quite different simply by attrition.

 

Frank

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This pushing back will come in the form of ensuring that our white male brothers continue to advance. 

 

Dude? Tim has been known to ban people from this website without notice.

 

I am grateful for your input on many subjects throughout this forum, but this is absurd. I appreciate your view on affirmative action and I?m not going to dispute you, but some of these comments are beyond arguing the politics of affirmative action and just simply too much.

 

You seem to be a smart, funny, and informative guy. Why don't you keep it that way?

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Guest Kai.w
Kai. W.

 

"Maybe you should look at the numbers of women / minorities in higher jobs in countries which do have antidiscrimination laws as opposed to those which have not. Maybe you should look at the structure of political parties which do have quotas opposed to those which have not"

 

You're making me laugh out loud!

 

As Phil Rhodes points out what even makes you think many women and minorities want this type of legislation even though in theory it will benefit them?

 

Frank

 

I was just hinting at certain dependencies, hoping that somebody with a brain would see that there are still structures that discriminate women. In germany i.e women in average get 12 percent less than a male in the same job. I was'nt even remotely promoting quotas or anything else as solution.

 

I'm giving up. It's helpless.

 

-k

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Guest Frank Gossimier

"This pushing back will come in the form of ensuring that our white male brothers continue to advance.  "

 

I don't see any thing subversive about my statement?

 

If I was black and I said, "black male brothers" no one would even bat an eye.

 

I'm just pointing out a factual reality. Many white males won't be so open with their views even though they feel exactly the same way I do. Many are "worse" believe me. Frequently making statements about keeping women and minorities out of the film biz and every other industry, period. I'm certainly not one of those guys.

 

As for being banned, if the forum is not a place for the free exchange of ideas (even those people don't want to hear) then it's not really a forum is it?

 

Frank

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"As for being banned, if the forum is not a place for the free exchange of ideas (even those people don't want to hear) then it's not really a forum is it?"

 

there's a time and a place for everything.

 

it seems like this website and these forums focus on dealing exclusively with all aspects of cinematography and many aspects of filmmaking in general.

 

so frankly, Frank, why don't you leave sexism, racism, ignorance and a "free exchange of ideas" (is that what you call it?) to, let's say, Yahoo.com message boards.

 

whenever that complex of yours starts kicking in and you feel the urgent need

to blame something on a minority, feel free to look me up on those boards. my nickname is 'whimsicg'.

 

:D

 

(or you can do something useful instead. go help a "minority". i dare you.)

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"This pushing back will come in the form of ensuring that our white male brothers continue to advance"

 

 

Pfffffft!!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!! :lol: !!!!

 

ensuring our .... :lol: .... white male brothers... :lol: ...continue to.... :rolleyes: .....continue to.... :lol:

 

advance!

 

 

:blink:

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: !!!!!

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"This pushing back will come in the form of ensuring that our white male brothers continue to advance"

Pfffffft!!!! ROTFLMFAO!!!!  :lol: !!!!

 

ensuring our ....  :lol:  .... white male brothers... :lol: ...continue to.... :rolleyes: .....continue to.... :lol:

 

advance!

:blink:

:lol:  :lol:  :lol: !!!!!

 

 

I don't get it-->is this what you call modern art? :)

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Guest Frank Gossimier

"(or you can do something useful instead. go help a "minority". i dare you.)"

 

I don't help minorities or majorities, I just help people, period.

 

Unlike you I don't see people in terms of their race or gender, that is why I oppose affirmitive action.

 

Frank

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don't you feel the real problem is somewhere else?

there insn't enouth jobs for everybody!

this is why everybody looks himself in a competition

all what i red so far is a result of the "colateral damaged " of an industry in crisis.

there is no enemy in term of white, women, single leg, blind operator :),.... but a lak of jobs.

if there where work for everybody you woulnd't ask yourself about girls having jobs and not me.

you wouldn't have time to post here (except D.Mullen who is a superheroe).

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