Anyone know anything about this Arri monster?

Cole Paquette · November 3, 2010

http://cgi.ebay.com/Arri-Arriflex-IIC-IIB-Movie-Camera-w-AC-DC-Motor-/260685402845?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3cb20f92dd

an old arri camera I am totally unfamiliar with and have never even heard of its existence prior to this. a few broken parts and some minor repairs are required, as well as a lens, but it seems to be KISS simple and runs.

is there anything else the seller missed? Is this a good item? does anyone recognize it, or even better, is anyone familiar with it? and will it work with cheaper lenses? I don't want to drop $15K on a lens when, say, and old lomo lens will work fine (for example.)

I work with silent films, so camera noise and lack of sync sound is not a bother.

Thanks.

Dom Jaeger · November 3, 2010

From the movement design it looks to be an Arri 35IIA (or just 35II) not B or C. For a description and history of these iconic cameras:

http://www.cinematechnic.com/resources/arri_35-2.html

This one looks in pretty bad nick, and the cracked part mentioned is actually the all important pull-down claw. You don't know if it's even got a mirror/shutter. Parts for these babies are very hard to come by, unless you buy a clapped out one for spares. Which is basically what this one is.

Cole Paquette · November 3, 2010

Ok, so lemme guess:

Arri most likely does NOT stock the claw, nor the mirror/shutter.

but, on the other hand, the baseplate AC motor is rather rare, and a good deal. I believe that motor is specially made for using the camera with a blimp.

for the price, it might be a good deal, if all I take is the motors, batteries, cables, and maybe the film magazine.

the camera body might be salvageable.

DOES arri actually stock the parts?

if not, I might be able to get the claw machined, I know someone who can mill that part. the shutter/mirror would be hard to get a hold of.

but there is always the easy way: ask the seller! i'll do that, hopefully soon.

but IMHO, I watched the video, and it sounds like the shutter is there, but the movement is rough. the bearing probably are in dire need of lubrication.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Cole Paquette

John Sprung · November 3, 2010

DOES arri actually stock the parts?

No. This is the early eccentric screw pulldown, not the cardioid cam that gave them the dwell claw and allowed them to increase the shutter opening from 120 to 180 degrees. I didn't see the serial number, if it's under 2000, then it's a model I, which was made from 1937 - 44, mostly for the Third Reich's newsreel, "Die Deutsche Wochenschau". No parts are available for those. The first model II was pretty much a copy of the model I, but some dimensions are slightly different, because the tooling for the model I was destroyed in an air raid on July 14, 1944. The door is definitely post-war, because the phrase "Made in Western Germany" on it originated with the occupation and partition.

The flat base motor is the one for the big magnesium blimp. The "telephone dial" inching knob on the blimp pushes a rubber wheel against the top of it.

If you buy the package for the motors, and the body is indeed an historic model I, I'd be interested in buying it. I've already collected three of them.

-- J.S.

Leo Anthony Vale · November 4, 2010

I don't want to drop $15K on a lens when, say, and old lomo lens will work fine (for example.)

The LOMO OST-18 lens mounts may look like Arri standard mounts, but the dimensions are different. They're too big for an Arri.

Cole Paquette · November 5, 2010

No. This is the early eccentric screw pulldown, not the cardioid cam that gave them the dwell claw and allowed them to increase the shutter opening from 120 to 180 degrees. I didn't see the serial number, if it's under 2000, then it's a model I, which was made from 1937 - 44, mostly for the Third Reich's newsreel, "Die Deutsche Wochenschau". No parts are available for those. The first model II was pretty much a copy of the model I, but some dimensions are slightly different, because the tooling for the model I was destroyed in an air raid on July 14, 1944. The door is definitely post-war, because the phrase "Made in Western Germany" on it originated with the occupation and partition.

The flat base motor is the one for the big magnesium blimp. The "telephone dial" inching knob on the blimp pushes a rubber wheel against the top of it.

If you buy the package for the motors, and the body is indeed an historic model I, I'd be interested in buying it. I've already collected three of them.

-- J.S.

well, some of the parts look old enough. it may be an I, the seller doesn't seem to really know which model it is. the battery pack for the dc motor is post WWII-it has the made in the USA sticker on it. the label on the camera says 'made in western Germany' so if i learned anything in history, it's that western Germany was after WWII, so therefore the camera must be as well. all labels in it look to be in German. the model/serial number says:

Arnold & Richter

Munchen

Typ: 60 No: 110/32

looks to be an early serial number of an early model, maybe slightly rare, probably not as rare as the three you mention.

I will admit there is the two dots above the u in Munchen, but I don't remember what keys make them.

The LOMO OST-18 lens mounts may look like Arri standard mounts, but the dimensions are different. They're too big for an Arri.

It was the first lens that came to mind. I thought they were of different dimensions after I wrote and posted that. but, seeing as I got an almost instant response of 'cracked pin, possible broken or missing shutter' I decided to not correct it, as something with that much damage that could be near-impossible to repair just isn't worth the time or money.

Mark Dunn · November 5, 2010

the label on the camera says 'made in western Germany' so if i learned anything in history, it's that western Germany was after WWII, so therefore the camera must be as well. all labels in it look to be in German. the model/serial number says:

Arnold & Richter

Munchen

Typ: 60 No: 110/32

I think the suggestion is that the door is a later replacement.

John Sprung · November 5, 2010

I think the suggestion is that the door is a later replacement.

Yes, that happens a lot. I saw one once that was an original Luftwaffe green body, with a black turret and door.

-- J.S.

Christian Appelt · November 5, 2010

Cole,

I wouldn't recommend this camera unless you consider it a collector's item or prop for display. The price is OK for motor, mags and all the small stuff.

As far as I can see, the camera body is an Arri II, it has the original pre-war movement. Image steadiness ist not as good as with later models, and you have a 120-degree mirror shutter. Which means less light on the film and more shuttering with pans and fast moving objects.

The next model, named IIA, was introduced in 1953 and had an improved movement and a 180-degree shutter. So unless you definitely want a model II, I suggest you get one of the many decent IIA, B and C models on the market. This package may be fine for all the additional stuff.

It is correct that "Made in Western Germany" was used after WWII when Germany was split in half (US, British, French in the west, Russian in the east), so this camera was produced between 1946 and 1953.

kevin jackman · November 26, 2010

not much of a mystery there, it appears to be a 2a. i have one that wroks fine that i was going to get rid of. the valuable part in that auction was the studio motor and its base. i had one and sold it.