Zelig filmaking

[Fulgencio Martinez]

Hi,

I´m into a project that needs to recreate early twentieth century footage.

Sometimes maybe insert nowdays images into 1910 stocks.

As i think Zelig (being 10 years before Forrest gump) is the best example.

I´d like to have some info about film stocks, cameras and processing that Gordon Willis may have used.

Also i´m interested about some new alternatives.

How about cross-processing b/W to limt lattitude.

What can a 2k process do for me (16 & s16 originals)

Thanks,

Fulgencio

[David Mullen ASC]

Most of the material shot for "Zelig" was done on 35mm Plus-X negative and then duped as many generations down as needed to match the grain and contrast of the particular piece of film they were matching to. Obviously this would be a lot easier these days by using digital intermediate technology. You'd first scan the original film you're matching to so you'd have a frame of reference. But it all starts with picking the material you have to match to because film from that era looks radically different depending on how it has aged and how it has been preserved. Some are high-contrast copies of copies, some through 16mm generations, while others are preserved prints of the era and others are new prints of original negative --- and some were even preserved on "paper prints" stored at the Library of Congress and then retransferred to 16mm or 35mm b&w.

 

No reason to deal with cross-processing with b&w -- contrast and grain can be easily controlled through development times and then through duping onto other b&w stocks if needed.

[John Pytlak RIP]

Another thing to remember is that B&W stocks of that era were NOT panchromatic -- they were essentially only sensitive to the blue portion of the spectrum. So the tone scale of colors were rendered differently than the eye perceives them (e.g., reds were rendered as dark gray, blue skies were blank white). You can simulate the "look" of an old blue sensitive film by shooting with a blue filter. To simulate the "look" of an old orthochromatic camera film, use a deep cyan filter to remove the red.

 

Your lab may also be able to help you simulate the blotchy/flickery non-uniformity that resulted from the more primitive processing machines of the early 1900's, perhaps even "hand souping" the film during development.

[Mitch Gross]

perhaps even "hand souping" the film during development.

I think George could help on that one if you're brave enough to try to tackle it. :o

[David Mullen ASC]

On the other hand, I'm sure uneven development causing some pulsing could be simulated digitally if he were going to go through a digital intermediate process.

[Fredrik Backar FSF]

I believe a bit of force developing could help in rendering the higher contrast of those days too, besides the already good info given here.

The grainstructure tends to stand out more too, and quite quickly in my experience.

Just one stop of push has done it for me a few times in stills photo at least.

 

Good luck!!

[Guest oscar]

Fulgencio:

I have done that youre trying with no major trouble, shooting normal and after that given some digital image treatment, just with after effects and it did come out pretty good. Just to keep in mind that on clothing, locations and lightning that it is going to be for Black and white, that's my little contribution.

[Fulgencio Martinez]

Hi,

Thanks to all for the replies,

I think i will be able to go through the digital route, but i think i should have the texture and contrast at least a bit close to the final results.

AS i know having a big digital change could show the artifact.

Am i wrong?

i have to do some very old textures (1898-1912) and they are not supposed to be shot by melies, but by enthuast amateurs.

I have got some cuban 1898 footage and it is really, really broken.

The camera , thiough standing on a tripod, shakes as if they were in the middle of an earthquake.(16 fps)

I have a K3 camera wich i have learned is able to shoot without jamming, without the pressure plate for the gate.

I think this, plus cross self-developing plus-x (kodak already talks about using as a neg for 1 gamma so i think it is not so insane)and then to 2k.

Is it all to crazy?

i use to do crazy methods, but this is a good proyect so i´d like to know if it is too risky.

although it is not the same fact i´d like to know if i could get s8 to 2K machine.

Thanks,

Fulgencio

[Fredrik Backar FSF]

It doesn´t sound too crazy except the cross bit maybe as the stock is already quite contrasty. But I sure won´t stop you if you want to try=)

From what I know, at least the millennium is capable of s8 2K.

 

Sincerely/ Fredrik.