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Pixelated edges


Shidan Saberi

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Not really - it's a characteristic of the camera. You can shoot interlaced and use a better deinterlacer in post, which might mitigate it a bit.

 

P

 

Could I have ended up with a faulty camera though? Because when i look at all the tests of the same camera on youtube no one else seems to be having the same problem:S

 

They have far more smooth edges and sharper quality than mine.

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I'd be very happy with this quality.

 

 

and

 

 

I played around with it a lot last night.

 

My black helmet and anything round is very pixelated. The worst are the piano keys. Unless at a 90 degree angle it's really pixelated.

 

I've got a feeling it's just a problem mine is having.

 

What do you guys reckon? Or am i being paranoid?

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Youtube quality ???

 

You realise that reducing resolution hides a multitude of sins ...

 

lol i like the way you put it. But it doesn't with mine:(

 

I taped a friend skating at a tennis field. The tennis field lines were horrible. Extremely pixelated especially in pans and so forth. When i captured it on sony vegas and made it full screen the lines weren't so bad anymore. But because he was moving fast and doing tricks it was extremely interlaced. It was very unpleasant to watch any fast movement.

I print screened some of it.

 

I'm trying to upload it. But i can't upload it:S I can't even upload it on flickr. Everytihng i do goes wrong X(

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Ok i managed to upload the photos

 

These I paused and print screened

 

5282706148_75153f1e3c.jpg

 

5282108373_5822c42d6f.jpg

 

And these were rolling when i print screened them.

 

5282110673_eb26a7fc39_z.jpg

 

(sometimes it's ok. Not so horrible to watch like this

 

5282709982_38252d5a3e.jpg

 

So my question is whether this is normal or an unacceptably too much interlaced.

 

It's really not that pleasant to watch though.

Edited by Shidan Sabzi
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The first couple, which have double images, are a perfectly normal side-effect of interlacing. Go and read about it on Wikipedia and all will become clear.

 

The last one, with the image horizontally split, is "tearing", which is just an artifact of it being displayed on a computer without various synchronisation options enabled - which player were you using?

 

P

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Call me a noob if you will but i have to say whats on my heart.

 

Why did i pay so much money for a camera what cant even catch movement properly:(

 

My Canon hv30 catches sharper images, with less noise and can handle all kinds of movement beautifully. I feel like i should have just spent the money on lighting equipment and another hv30 and had plenty of money left over:(

 

The only ways the xha1s has been better so far is focus ring and sound.

 

Here are some print screens from my hv30.

 

5282597089_696de8d929.jpg

 

5283195622_be0d977247_z.jpg

 

5282600067_2016fb2e71_z.jpg

 

5283198414_be8cd26585_z.jpg

 

This one is a punch which is faster than all the other movements at real high shutter speed. Theres on interlace. It's beautiful.

 

5282594255_604b0c65f7_z.jpg

 

Perhaps i haven't understood this yet and i'm making a fool of myself but this saddens me:(

 

Have I miss understood this?

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I'm assuming you have read up on wikipedia about how interlacing works.

 

If not, read this, which was written by an expert called Phil Rhodes.

 

http://hdslr.bhphoto.com/Guide.php?chapter=1#chapter=16&topic=5

 

 

Interlaced and progressive scan are different, and it's probably the case that progressive scan is now more popular. The only reason for this is that film only ever captured progressive scan, which strictly speaking gives poorer motion rendering for the frame rate, but everyone wanted to ape film.

 

If you pull an interlaced frame out of a movie file, you will see combing, but that isn't necessarily wrong. For display as a still, you'll want to run it through the deinterlace filter in Photoshop, and you can deinterlace the whole stream using similar techniques (which is what the camera is doing in 24F mode) - but as you noticed that can cause artifacts. There are better techniques which produce fewer artifacts, and you should investigate them.

 

I suspect that the XHA1 is much, much sharper than the HV30, give or take that caveat.

 

P

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Shidan,

 

In Sony Vegas, you will get a more accurate screen grab by using the Save Snapshot to File button in the Video Preview window. The icon looks like a floppy disk. Make sure your Preview Quality is set to Best(Full) before saving the file.

 

Vegas might have problems rendering your video properly if the Project Properties do not match the media's resolution, interlacing and frame rate exactly. The skateboarder pictures lead me to believe Vegas is trying to pulldown/up your video.

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Why did i pay so much money for a camera what cant even catch movement properly:(

 

Can you take it back? If so, that may be the best option. It's strange that interlaced cameras are still being made, it's a relic of analog CRT television.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

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I'm assuming you have read up on wikipedia about how interlacing works.

 

If not, read this, which was written by an expert called Phil Rhodes.

 

http://hdslr.bhphoto.com/Guide.php?chapter=1#chapter=16&topic=5

 

 

Interlaced and progressive scan are different, and it's probably the case that progressive scan is now more popular. The only reason for this is that film only ever captured progressive scan, which strictly speaking gives poorer motion rendering for the frame rate, but everyone wanted to ape film.

 

If you pull an interlaced frame out of a movie file, you will see combing, but that isn't necessarily wrong. For display as a still, you'll want to run it through the deinterlace filter in Photoshop, and you can deinterlace the whole stream using similar techniques (which is what the camera is doing in 24F mode) - but as you noticed that can cause artifacts. There are better techniques which produce fewer artifacts, and you should investigate them.

 

I suspect that the XHA1 is much, much sharper than the HV30, give or take that caveat.

 

P

 

thank you for the link. I've had a glance at wiki but i found other sites that went more into it like http://www.100fps.com/

 

I played with it more lastnight. When i play the skating clip on VLC player it is so badly interlaced that it's painful to watch. But when i play it in Nero showtime it's is really quite good.

 

5284290001_eee9aaac67_z.jpg

 

Someone brought to my attention that cameras don't interlace but programs do it. But so far i've had a different understanding so i'm trying to find more info to make this clearer for me. If anyone has any good links:)

 

Thanks everyone!

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Shidan,

 

In Sony Vegas, you will get a more accurate screen grab by using the Save Snapshot to File button in the Video Preview window. The icon looks like a floppy disk. Make sure your Preview Quality is set to Best(Full) before saving the file.

 

Vegas might have problems rendering your video properly if the Project Properties do not match the media's resolution, interlacing and frame rate exactly. The skateboarder pictures lead me to believe Vegas is trying to pulldown/up your video.

 

That's great advice actually. Because i'm starting to suspect a lot of my problem is coming from how i'm using vegas. I'll try using save snapshot.

 

When i capture a video it saves it in my documents. When I look at the files on my documents with nero showtime they are usually very good quality and reasonably sized. When the same file is on vegas it's far worste quality even when set to best full. And when i export it a one minute clip can be up to 1GB when the original is probably only 300MB. Is this normal or are my settings wrong perhaps?

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I played with it more lastnight. When i play the skating clip on VLC player it is so badly interlaced that it's painful to watch.

 

VLC>video>de-interlace mode> ...

 

You can play around with different modes and compare - helps to know what they're doing at the same time (if you're interested) ;)

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interesting read that website ...

 

I remember thinking about you could distil 50fps progressive slow mo from 25fps interlaced footage - but to get your aspect back to what is was you'd have to quarter the resolution ... I guess with some forms of image that up-res algorithms don't leave too many noticeable artefacts you could do well huh :blink:

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VLC>video>de-interlace mode> ...

 

You can play around with different modes and compare - helps to know what they're doing at the same time (if you're interested) ;)

 

Ah interestingg! I didn't know VCL does that. I don't really know what the settings mean though.

 

I watched the Skating clips on tape on the xha1s lcd screen. Besides the fact that the tennis courts lines were pixelated (which was fixed on big screen) it was very smooth and no interlaced mouse teeth at all when paused.

 

Some of the hv30 clips i'm watching now on VCL are also very interlaced. I'm starting to think that it's not the cameras but i need to better understand editing programs and how to set the settings properly.

 

Maybe my disappointment in my new camera was wrong (hopefully!)

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Can you take it back? If so, that may be the best option. It's strange that interlaced cameras are still being made, it's a relic of analog CRT television.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

 

Na I can't. I bought it second hand (it's 3 months old) from newspaper ad. It's still under warranty though so if anything is wrong they should fix it.

 

I'm starting to realize its more the programs settings fault more than the camera which is good news.

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